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007Spartan said...
You probably could have said the same them about liquor bootleggers and moonshiners back in the day. Besides much of the drug production has moved to the US anyway. It is much tougher and more expensive to move Marijuana across the border, so they've started sending crews stateside to grow it hear. We routinely hear about grow operations being busted our state and national parks. Arizona for example is about 75% uninhabited state or federal trust land. Lots of room for them to come in and grow it.
Legalizing it would move stateside production to legit operations. I mean, even if you have to pay a bit more wouldn't you just purchase from a reputable source versus a drugdealer? I would (even though I don't smoke) and I'm guessing most people would agree with me. Ultimately, I simply think its a lost cause. We haven't really dented demand and honestly is it any more harmful or dangerous than cigarettes and alcohol. Why not just face reality and move our attention to more dangerous problems. Would legalizing it instantly do away with illegal marijuana and cartels and cartel related violence. Hell no. However, over a decade or so I think the illegal marijuana market would shrivel to a very small segment of the market in the same way moonshine and illegal liquor was marginalized. That said, for me its just an economic question at this point. Why are we paying billions upon billions in drug enforcement and incarceration costs when we could be making billions in tax revenue, create a thriving agricultural industry and related jobs, and also take billions out of the hands of criminals? I don't get it. Are we really that scared of white guys with dreadlocks playing hackysack in our parks?
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La Rana Cansada Hotel and Bar Ranita in Playa del Carmen Mexico
La Rana Cansada Hotel and Bar Ranita in Playa del Carmen, located in the heart of Mexico's Riviera Maya. Just of 5th Avenue on the infamous 10th Street, come stay with us and relax with friends at Bar Ranita or visit the beach club.
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Diodotus said...
If the thought of Mexican journalists, paramedics, politicians, policemen, not to mention women and children being beheaded and stacked like cord wood in mass graves of 60 or more bothers you (and you're a pretty cold fish if it doesn't) I suggest folks stop buying drugs--boycott the product that is the cause of all this violence.
This is a good test of sincerity for those that claim to know how to "solve" the drug problem.
Narwhal ●
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Diodotus said...
If the thought of Mexican journalists, paramedics, politicians, policemen, not to mention women and children being beheaded and stacked like cord wood in mass graves of 60 or more bothers you (and you're a pretty cold fish if it doesn't) I suggest folks stop buying drugs--boycott the product that is the cause of all this violence.
This is a good test of sincerity for those that claim to know how to "solve" the drug problem.
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TheBlitzIsOn ●
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htown3000 said...
What if we legilized all drugs? Haven't some countries done this to decrease the demand? If its legal to fuck your life up, maybe it wouldn't be cool. Also, in some countries, they don't have a legal drinking age. And they don't seem to have a problem with these issues. Deregulation/legalization can have positive effect on said industry sometimes. This might be "too far/out there" for Americans though. Or are we too different from other European countries?
There's a time and a place for everything and it's called college.
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VargMan said...
Why should we legalize hard drugs just for the sake of Mexico?
Legalizing drugs won't end the cartels. The counterfeit market will flourish while the Mexican government continues being inept. Violence will continue.
Legalizing pot is a no brainer. Hard drugs is a different story.
http://www.aip.org/history/einstein/essay.htm
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iCameron said...
If the example of Portugal is any indication, removing the criminal penalties for using drugs such as heroin is a net benefit to society. If the criminal penalties are removed, people are free to seek treatment for their addictions without any fear of prosecution, rather than turning to crime to fund their drug habits.
It makes much more sense to treat addiction as a public health problem, rather than a criminal issue. Heroin addicts need help, pity, sympathy, and treatment, not imprisonment. This is pure speculation on my part, but I think the expenditures on treatment for addicts would be less than the expenditures on imprisoning them. Not to mention the benefits of reducing/eliminating the black market should all drugs be legalized.
This post was edited by ItsADoubleDion7 on 5/24/2012 at 10:25 PM
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iCameron said...
If people can get Bayer brand heroin legally and for the same/similar price, why would they buy stuff illegally produced by cartels? You may not like hard drugs (I don't either), but the same logic applies to heroin and cocaine as it does to marijuana. Anything that can be produced illegally can be produced legally and sold for the same price and profit margin. Eliminating black markets benefits everyone. The cartels won't peacefully give up their market share, but starving their profits by legally producing the hard drugs that there will always be a demand for is the only way to defeat them and end the cycle of obscene violence.
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ItsADoubleDion! said...
Here are your thoughts, confirmed. It worked.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
And, for you conservative thinkers out there, this is a Cato study, not some lefty-left thing. Granted, Cato has been against the Drug War and criminalization for some time.
EDIT: The link is messed up. Here is the study, for those who want to read it.
http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/drug-decriminalization-portugal-lessons-creating-fair-successful-drug-policies
Whether or not this would change the way the cartels operate is another thing, but it certainly appears to have a net public health benefit.
This post was edited by tVargMan Prime on 5/24/2012 at 10:57 PM
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spartanMF ●
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VargMan said...
Portugal is a red herring. Mexico is immediately south of our border and they won't stop supplying narcotics because the united states legalizes drugs. Counterfeiting pharmaceuticals is a huge problem in this country and around the world...so, if that is a problem in a well regulated industry, it only follows that with the source of cheap and easy to make drugs in our hemisphere, the cartels won't be eliminated...in fact, they may be empowered because they can traffic counterfeit drugs in the united states and pass them off as legal.
there is no proof that legalizing pot in the United States will eliminate violence in Mexico...there's no proof that it will even reduce it significantly.
there are many merits to the legalize pot argument...losing the "it will eliminate violence" argument doesn't hurt the "legalize pot" movement.
The United States should not make policy based on what might happen in Mexico.
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ItsADoubleDion! said...
I'm not sure I agree. I think full legalization could cripple the Mexican cartels, if only because potential customers could purchase drugs from a store the same way they purchase alcohol and tobacco. The approach is to break the cartel's supply monopoly. They may not stop drug smuggling outright, but a "safe" (as in not cut with god knows what) source of drugs cheaply produced by or with the consent of the US government may have a positive effect in reducing the power of Mexican drug smuggling operations. This will never happen though, at least not in the near future.
I agree there is no proof that legalization of pot will have any effect in Mexico. How can there be? Policy cannot be tested in a vacuum, the only way to have any proof is to try it and see what happens.
Anyway, the current heavy-handed police/military/DEA approach to drugs both at home and in Mexico is clearly not working, and it is time to try something else, rather than throwing billions of dollars away and not solving the problem. In my opinion, the current approach makes things worse. That's why I support decriminalization/legalization efforts. It may reduce violence in Mexico, it may not. But where it has been tried it has been a net good for society from a law enforcement and public health perspective.
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Yellowledbetter said...
cartels (which aren't even cartels in the true economic sense of the word) would not go away if drugs were legalized in the US. They would shift to human trafficking, sex slavery, extortion, robbery, kidnapping, identity theft, and counterfeit prescription meds...oh wait, they are already doing all these things to diversify and ensure that should drugs be legalized they are able to maintain an income
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50,000 dead in 6 years in Mexico