MSU Red Cedar Message Board

You're picking apart semantics. It's pathetic.

I recall Clifton Wharton telling my orientation class in 77 to look to the person to the left and then at the one on the right. He then said only 1 of you will graduate 4 years from now. I certainly took the scenic route and added a few (cough) years for bad behavior. Can't say I didn't enjoy every minute of it though.

What is the purpose of a college/university?

If the purpose is to graduate students, then why is it wrong to judge the institution for the percent they graduate?

Why should the US citizens underwrite a students higher ed exploration. If it takes you longer than 6 years to get a degree you (as a student) lose access to Tirle IV aid.

You think I am looking at it wrong. I think you are looking at it simplistically. You can go to school all day, all night. You won't get TIV and the school will get dinged with a noncompleter.

Dawg.... you have a couple of Gen Y (or X) level mind sets here that are affecting your statements.

"If the purpose is to graduate students...." Wrong! Despite the "trade school" mentality some have about universities their job is NOT to graduate students. They don't have a job. They have a purpose. That purpose to society is to provide a concentration of knowledge and expertise that others can tap into and then in turn pass on again. Its called developing, advancing and preserving our civilization providing the students of said universities do their job and learn. Students graduate if they and they alone sucede in the academic requirements provided to them by the university. To turn your next statement on its head....if a university provides the means for a student to accomplish expertise in any field why should the university be penalized if the student effs around by not taking advantage of what the university offers.

"Why should the US citizens underwrite...". Cut the tea party crapola. I've heard that conservative clap trap since before you were born. The "citizens" underwrite squat and have been paying less and less of any public institution's budget for decades. The portion of any public universities budget that comes from "taxes" (I'm sure that is what you're bitching about) is not anywhere near what it was when I was a student. Example - only 10 % of the IU School of Medicine's budget now comes from the state of Indiana because of cut after cut after cut (thanks to Mitch Daniels, our governor and former Dubya's budget director). MSU's portion coming from MI is a fraction of what it was when I was a student as well and the portion for uofm has gotten so small they are thinking of going private.

Finally ...you can quote T- IV all you want. What i'm saying is any funding formula by the DOE that uses student graduation rates to penalize a univeristy and pinch pennies is stupid and needs to be rescinded.

I admire that stance, and applaud it, but look at the list of Michigan universities, look at the list of majors, look at the electives, and tell me that taxpayers aren't subsidizing people who simply suck at certain things; things like: MATH, SCIENCE, ENGLISH. You can't tell me that Michigan, or the Midwest, or the USA, or the world, is somehow missing out on the next great mind if Ferris or Marquette were shut down.

Bottom line: Education became a business (with guaranteed federal loans), and there will ALWAYS be a school for EVERY student, whether they deserve it or not. It won't put them on the path to prosperity, but it certainly will get the school 5 figures worth of money that the student will probably default on.

I know a guy who had an academic sholie offer to several shools as a math major. He accepted the offer from Dayton University. In the middle of his soph year(whilst earning very good grades), he decided to quit school, and become a plumber. He is happy as all hell now, and he runs his own business. He had book smarts, it just didn't fit him. He's doing very well financially, and his happiness is off the charts.

America needs to acknowledge that not everyone is fit for office work, not to mention that we NEED people who can actually build and/or fix stuff.

Good stuff!

Sounds aboot right. No surprises here.

MSUManiac13: Ms. Savoy makes for a fine avatar! Every man should greet the day, sword in hand, ready to slay dragons. (Dragons ARE some sort of fish, aren't they? LOL)

The population of Michigan is 14.3% black. The population of the United States is 13.1%. Compared with 80.2% and 78.1% white for Michigan these United States respectively, I realize I'm not good enough at stats to tell at a glance (and I'm too tired and drunk to do the math) if the population of our university's is overall matching the population of our state or nation.

Some should be turned into 4 year tech school with various apprenticeship programs. We need more highly trained carpenters, plumbers, electricians, skilled labor, machinist, etc. Too many people in those trades now are in their 60s + or are not properly trained. I have a couple of clients in aerospace machine shops that cannot find enough skilled labor and eventually give up looking.

.

Some of the difference in rates between schools has a lot to do with how able people are to pay for their education.

I knew a lot of people who went to CMU or WMU because they were cheaper, had no financial support from parents, and weren't able to finish.

Most people I know who went to big 10 schools had the financial support to finish.

Edit: That obviously doesn't address the racial gap thing.