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Are we a little too confident about WR depth?

  • Every time there is a thread about this fall or WR recruiting I see mention upon mention about how 'deep' we are at WR. Am I missing something? We've got quite a few bodies - but they are utterly unproven and given the class compression there will almost assuredly be washouts.

    We are deep at LB - we have proven studs starting, backups who have shown something(whether in cleanup or spring games), and very highly recruited guys having to fight just to get a look.

    At WR we have bodies. But we don't have the proven studs. We do have some kids who've shown flashes - Arnett, Fowler, Lippett, and Mumphrey all have shown some promise. We have a couple highly regarded recruits as well. That's not deep. That's a mess(for now). Depth comes from experience, talent, and performance - at best we've got 1 of the 3, as our current group is young in years and young in snaps. And as talented of a group of freshmen as we're bringing in, Burbridge(presuming he qualifies) is the only one at the 'expected immediate contribution' level. Now, I'm a pretty big fan of the bunch we've got and think we're going to have some of the group turn out pretty damn well. But that's going to take many games to find the right group and for that group to become what they can be.

    Lets remember what Cunningham was as a frosh or soph...frustrating, enigmatic. Even if Lippett or Arnett or Mumphery or Fowler is everything they have shown in practice and more - they are taking over for a lot of starts. And Lippett has been working on both sides of the ball, Fowler has dealt with multiple injuries, Arnett was a Vol...I'm seeing some wrong and sloppy routes in our future. And that isn't an indictment of the players - I think next year we'll have a very solid group to depend on, but this year will be a process of getting this group settled in. And after those guys get settled in, I expect we'll lose a couple bodies out of our 'depth' once people find the depth chart less welcoming than the open spaces it provided this spring.

    At LB we have players like Taiwan Jones, who arrived with some hype and has looked real good in practice, fighting to even be on the 2nd team. At Wr there are many here predicting Macgarrett Kings will get playing time. I doubt that personally, even though his tape is impressive...but the point is that a tantalizing LB with on field experience is a clear backup, while a WR without college experience is a candidate - Wr is anything but deep.

    I both hope for an expect a serviceable but improving group this year, but the position is by far the most worrisome on the team right now. That's why getting Jay Harris(let alone Drake) is both important and logical, not overloading on a point of strength.

    (sorry for the tome of a first post, figured I'd go all the way now that I'm a real RCMBer)

    Waterston

  • Water is wet.

    MSUChip23

  • I haven't seen one person say they aren't at least a little worried about the WRs. But you have to remember that Maxwell has been throwing to these receivers his entire time here at MSU. He knows how they work and vice versa.

    Sp4rt4ns

  • I spend most of my days hiding in a fort built from couch cushions because of WR depth.

    signature image

    Plate of Shrimp

  • MSUChip23 said...

    Water is wet.

    Since when?

    RIP tRCMB

    MR Universe19299

  • I'm not really worried...there's lots of raw talent in this group.

    Maybe more talent than we've seen in past years.

    Arnett and Lippett both have experience and should be ready to step it up.

    On top of that...Dion Sims and Larry Caper will probably see a few extra early passes while the young receivers get comfortable.

    I think we'll be just fine.

    A very strong running game behind Bell, Caper, and Hill will also make a big difference.

    I Am That I Am

  • IMO Tressellball will be the gameplan for 2012. Pound the rock w Leveon, mix in play action, and play field position from there. Work on 3, 4 wide sets during CMU and Eastern games, I don't think we want them in the shotgun early in the year with all the inexperience out on the field.

    Of course I could be 100% wrong, and Maxwell could be the 2nd coming of Smoker and throw it 40 times a game. Either way just win.

    MIST

  • This post was edited by MIST on 6/28/2012 at 3:43 AM

    MIST

  • MSUChip23 said...

    Water is wet.

    Link???

    SpartanMatt

  • Your post doesn't make sense. MSU has "depth", in that there are a lot of bodies competing at WR. I agree with another poster, I think MSU has perhaps the most talented pool of young WR's in as long as I can remember. There is a lot of star power in there.

    What MSU lacks a proven receiver. Fowler is close, just needs to stay healthy.

    But this happens every year. Devin Thomas leaves - what are we gonna do? Blaire White leaves - who will step up? BJ Cunningham graduates - What now?

    I must admit - this year will be interesting. A new QB, all new WR's, and a coming out party on a Friday night versus Boise.

    My prediction is this: all everyone is talking about is running the ball and the OL. I say the performance of these WR's and Maxwell will play a bigger role in the outcome of the Boise game, and the entire season. If I was MD, I'd give these guys a shot to prove themselves. Throw the ball! I think the WR talent is there and they're hungry.

    Saying that "MSU will run, run, run" can be construed as "Our WR's suck, suck, suck". Show that you have some confidence in the WR's!

    Dicks Fake Eye20793

  • There should be a rule requiring football worry warts can't post until July 1.

    GRR Spartan

  • Depth is fine IMO. Certainly raw, but there are a lot of guys there who can play. Definitive starter level guys week 1, uh, we'll have to wait and see.

    More than anything, as someone mentioned Tresselball, with our D, punting and playing field position, isn't a bad thing.

    Larry Kazamias

  • MSUChip23 said...

    Water is wet.

    WELLS!!!!!!

    signature image

    Hells Wall

  • As we get closer, I'm feeling better about them. Arnett was really solid for UT and if healthy, Bennie will be very good. I wish Andre Sims wasn't 4'5" but he catches the ball well. The staff raves about Mumphrey. They will be fine.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Formerly Venomous Green Duck. Join Date: Nov. 2004 # of posts: 17,867.

    VenomousGDuck23

  • Depth at WR is one thing that we definitely have. We're confident that we have depth because that's a sheer numbers game. It's ability that we don't know if we have.

    WavSpartan

  • I think it is real simple. There is too much talent at WR to be worried. This staff just took a JUCO transfer and a couple freshmen, one of which was playing DT, and turned them into a pretty solid OL unit. I know, apples and oranges. Well, they also found a guy like Martin. Before last year, the guy couldn't take a hit without being helped off the field. Talented, yes. But not exactly an elite WR prospect when he arrived. They also took a QB and moved him over to WR. All 99 awareness did was make 2 of the best plays in MSU history last year. Then there's BJ Cunningham. A nice prospect who became the all time leading receiver in MSU history. So, like the defense over the last couple years, you replace experience with talent. And a whole lot of it. That has worked out pretty well. I know there are many here who are obsessed with *. Well, the WR corps might have the highest * average of any unit on this team.

    I think the worry comes from not knowing who the guy (or guys) will be. Me? I'm not worried, I'm curious. Is Fowler going to be healthy? Because if he is, he is going to turn some heads. The guy is like BJ and Martin all rolled into one. Arnett has played a full year of semi pro ($EC) football. Lippett has some experience, and there are other guys that the staff likes before you even have to dip into the incoming freshmen. Hell, we have a 6'2 240 lb RB that I would take at WR.

    Not worried. Not overconfident. Just ready for jthe season to start.

    aroz13

  • We have like 12 WRs on scholarship, all of whom are incredibly athletic and talented. 0% chance that a few of them can't step up.

    Macks

  • Good morning, Nucky.

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

    tGreenWay

  • tGreenWay said...

    Good morning, Nucky.

    And good morning to you as well!

    Jools Holland ●

  • Side note, Arnett kills it on xbox. It wouldn't let me give him the other #5 so he wears BJ's jersey. I redshirted Kings.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Formerly Venomous Green Duck. Join Date: Nov. 2004 # of posts: 17,867.

    VenomousGDuck23

  • Bingo

    Fuck off, nucky.

    This post was edited by ninowesco on 6/28/2012 at 9:44 AM

    We've got depth. We've got numbers.

    ninowesco

  • The key for this season is getting the young guns some early confidence and then playing with a "swag" the rest of the season. Look at the defense last year, all it took was one game (OSU) to get that "were better than you" mindset and they played with a chip on their shoulder and with confidence the rest of the year.

    If Rousher keeps it simple the first few games (slants, quick outs, screens) and gets the guys some early grabs going into the B10 season I think you'll see that same mentality as the defense had last year start to take shape with the WR's. There's plenty of talent they just need to prove to themselves (and the fans) they can succeed.

    KC_SPARTAN

  • aroz13 said...

    I think it is real simple. There is too much talent at WR to be worried. This staff just took a JUCO transfer and a couple freshmen, one of which was playing DT, and turned them into a pretty solid OL unit. I know, apples and oranges. Well, they also found a guy like Martin. Before last year, the guy couldn't take a hit without being helped off the field. Talented, yes. But not exactly an elite WR prospect when he arrived. They also took a QB and moved him over to WR. All 99 awareness did was make 2 of the best plays in MSU history last year. Then there's BJ Cunningham. A nice prospect who became the all time leading receiver in MSU history. So, like the defense over the last couple years, you replace experience with talent. And a whole lot of it. That has worked out pretty well. I know there are many here who are obsessed with *. Well, the WR corps might have the highest * average of any unit on this team.

    I think the worry comes from not knowing who the guy (or guys) will be. Me? I'm not worried, I'm curious. Is Fowler going to be healthy? Because if he is, he is going to turn some heads. The guy is like BJ and Martin all rolled into one. Arnett has played a full year of semi pro ($EC) football. Lippett has some experience, and there are other guys that the staff likes before you even have to dip into the incoming freshmen. Hell, we have a 6'2 240 lb RB that I would take at WR.

    Not worried. Not overconfident. Just ready for jthe season to start.

    Yea, you figure 2-3 out of 9 or 10 scholarship WRs are going to work out. The nerves come from not knowing which ones, or when they'll emerge.

    There are going to be mistakes, wrong routes and dropped passes. How many, and when they come are going to go a long way to determining this season.

    One thing that is a question mark is the run-blocking. Cunningham and Nichol were excellent downfield blockers. The current crop is ??

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Jools Holland said...

    And good morning to you as well!

    wave

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

    tGreenWay

  • aroz13 said...

    I think it is real simple. There is too much talent at WR to be worried. This staff just took a JUCO transfer and a couple freshmen, one of which was playing DT, and turned them into a pretty solid OL unit. I know, apples and oranges. Well, they also found a guy like Martin. Before last year, the guy couldn't take a hit without being helped off the field. Talented, yes. But not exactly an elite WR prospect when he arrived. They also took a QB and moved him over to WR. All 99 awareness did was make 2 of the best plays in MSU history last year. Then there's BJ Cunningham. A nice prospect who became the all time leading receiver in MSU history. So, like the defense over the last couple years, you replace experience with talent. And a whole lot of it. That has worked out pretty well. I know there are many here who are obsessed with *. Well, the WR corps might have the highest * average of any unit on this team.

    I think the worry comes from not knowing who the guy (or guys) will be. Me? I'm not worried, I'm curious. Is Fowler going to be healthy? Because if he is, he is going to turn some heads. The guy is like BJ and Martin all rolled into one. Arnett has played a full year of semi pro ($EC) football. Lippett has some experience, and there are other guys that the staff likes before you even have to dip into the incoming freshmen. Hell, we have a 6'2 240 lb RB that I would take at WR.

    Not worried. Not overconfident. Just ready for jthe season to start.

    This is more the sentiment I'm referring to. We have a large number of people who probably have 60% odds of being reasonable quality Big Ten starters by their junior years(my rough interpretation of 'high 3 star'). However - it is a unit that is really young and really inexperienced.

    And I also disagree with equating raw numbers with depth as some others have mentioned. Depth is measured by the number of players you feel can play tomorrow and be effective. If we were just counting bodies then OSU bball is deep and Eastern is just as deep as MSU - no, everyone knows that is fiction.

    There is a repeated claim of Tresselball style expectations, which isn't the perspective I've noticed. If that's the expectation, maybe I'm the optimist - as I don't see that level of conservatism being likely or necessary.

    And my reticence to 'buy in' isn't to those conservative estimations. I am more referring to "MSU is WR U" thread, this quote from CBD in the Madaris thread "The competition for PT @ WR next season will be something to behold. The WR depth is awesome.", or the confusion over taking any WRs in this class. That is mystifying overconfidence to me.

    Waterston

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