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I think this has been lost a little bit with all the chicken littling going on around here. You people are acting like UM (a team we blew out and lost to by 1 on the road) is way better than we were.
The tournament is a crazy thing and sometimes you get boned on seeding. Duke and Louisville were probably the 2 best teams in the tournament and we had to play one in the 3rd round and would have faced the other in the 4th.
There is a lot of luck involved in the tournament. Sometimes you get lucky and take advantage (MSU 2010), sometimes you get unlucky and still fuck shit up (MSU 2009), sometimes you get unlucky and things don't go your way.
Everybody calm down. Our bball program still kicks ass.
I agree that Michigan isn't leaps and bounds about MSU, but the difference between the seeds isn't really that much. If you say that Duke is the 2nd best team in the tournament, (I disagree, but it doesn't matter), then couldn't you swapped them and Kansas? I'd say those two teams were pretty even. I heard that Michigan probably really a 3 seed, but got moved down to get the Palace and for bracket principals.
I agree about the luck of the draw argument. There is also something to be said about just getting hot too. I think Michigan ended up with a favorable draw for them and were hot when they needed to be, until the end of the last game.
I think there were a lot of teams that were on the level of Michigan, Michigan State, Syracuse, Ohio State, Indiana, etc. that could have made it to and won the championship game. I do think Louisville was a cut above, but as Michigan showed, they weren't that far above the next group down of about 15 teams.
It was a wide open Tourney, the best team won, but I think there were about 12 other teams that all had a chance, Michigan got a miracle against Kansas, but then played great so they deserved to be there.
We weren't consistent all year long. If we would have gotten hot at the right time we could have won it all.
Louisville beat Duke by 20, so I don't think Duke was the second best team in country.
However I do think Michigan got a favorable draw, especially when Georgetown got knocked out. Florida was weak and Kansas was overrated all year.
Of course our program still kicks ass, but what UM did was still impressive. I don't think we need to degrade the path they took since they could only play who was in front of them. Plus, as you point out, luck is required in most years to make it to the Final Four, unless you're a juggernaut like Kentucky last year or UNC in 2009. UM had some luck, but still went through a 1 seed and a 3 seed, and blew out a VCU team MANY people expected to give them trouble if not beat them.
Also, MSU had a chance to make their own luck by beating OSU and taking the 2 seed in the weakest region. That one game had a huge impact on our tournament chances.
This post was edited by Fletch 12 months ago
The bad news was that we lost to Duke and went home from the tournament early. The good news is that the second best thing to watching State win the Tournament is watching Michigan lose the Tournament!
And Georgetown was way overrated as well. Their only claim to fame was a 10 game winning streak in the Big East against many of the bottom tier schools of the conference.
Listening to Pitino this morning, they asked him aboutthe "Kevin Ware effect". He said that it didn't help them at all in the FF or NCG ... heck they were missing a player. However, there is no question that it helped them for the Duke game. The players really rallied behind Kevin and made sure that he got to "go home to Atlanta"
Kansas was a ver offensively challenged team and a weak #1. I had them losing to UNC in my bracket.
thanks for telling me ABSOLUTELY nothing I didn't already know....that said: +1 for starting the thread because it's da truth
Huh? We were consistent all year long ... until the Duke game. It was a BAD time to play a bad game. Duke played a B/B+ game and we played a C- game.
Hats off to them.
Guess I'm in the minority but I thought UM had a pretty tough road to the finals. A LOT of people, myself included, thought VCU would give them problems. Nobody wanted any part of Shaka Smart in the tourney. They avoided Georgetown, so what? Georgetown never gets out of the first weekend anyway. One of the worst tourney teams out there. Then they had to go through KU, UF and Syracuse - all pretty prestigious programs with proven head coaches who have won at least one NC.
Granted, MSU's draw was tougher. But I'm just sayin'. It's not like they beat a bunch of no-name mid-majors to get to the finals. SDSU was really their only cakewalk opponent.
This post was edited by JEK 12 months ago
"RCMB: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainry." - some dude from MgoBlog
They destroyed VCU, so that was a cake walk.
So what they didn't have to play Georgetown? Georgetown was the top seed in the Big East tourney...ahead of the best team in the country. To go from possibly having to beat Gtown to a Florida team who hadn't beaten a ranked team all year I'd say was a pretty nice path.
VCU was WAY overrated this year. A full-strength Akron team would have beat them. UF was the biggest fraud. SEC weak ass bball and they beat three double digit seeds to get to the EE. Syracuse is tough, they would give us fits, but it was a matchup dream for UM. I thought an offensively challenged/overated Kansas team may give UM fits, and they did - until they gagged in the last two minutes.
I give them a smidge of credit though. They had to completely shit the bed not to get to the NCG and they didn't (like OSU), but it would have been nice to not play a tough game until the NCG.
Easy to say that now isn't it? Nobody thought they would destroy VCU at the time.
Who cares what Georgetown's seed was. If you can't get out of the first weekend, then you aren't a threat to make anybody's path harder.
I never want Duke in our bracket. You have to plain out shoot them down the stretch and will never, ever get an even whistle against them. Just an opinion and not based on any statistical facts.
yes and no: KU and the Cuse were legit wins but that was it. IF they were in the Big Ten I think KU would have been similar to us in record and performance and I think the Cuse would have been just below SCum: think a more talented Wisky....overall, they didn't have too rough a road but played great. Just fun to see them fall on their faces when it mattered most: they deserve NO quarter, because they gave us none in '09 when we lost to a UNC team that would have creamed either team last night.
My thought has been I KNOW michigan would not of made the Fianl Four in our division. I CAN'T say MSU would have made it in michigans. I think we would have done pretty well.though. Given mcgarys success in those games you would have to think Payne and Nix would of hade some games themselves.
Can't you use that same argument for VCU? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't make it out of the first weekend, therefore, they "aren't a threat to make anobody's path harder."
What does it matter if no one thought Michigan would destroy VCU? They did. They absolutely murdered them. Just because it looked like a tough game on paper doesn't mean it will be. It wasn't a tough game. It was a cake walk.
Why are you considering a 20+ point beatdown of a mid major a tough game for them?
Right. Just because the tv analysts thought the mountain west was a good conference, doesn't mean they were.
that's true....I watched VCU win in the first round vs. a depleted Akron team....it WAS Akron, right? Anyway, they were not impressive whatsoever. They were overseeded quite obviously.
Fair enough on VCU. I still think beating programs like KU, Florida and Syracuse just to get to the NC game is pretty tough. They are all, consistent major college basketball programs with great coaches who have won and been there, done that. I'm not saying was a murderer's row, but it wasn't a cakewalk either, and certainly tougher than Louisville's path.
Michigan got hot shooting at the right time and played some decent teams but I think Duke is better than Florida, cuse, and kansas.
"If you're worried about Wolverine fans, just move to Pasadena. You'll never have to deal with 'em."
Maybe, but Duke didn't have a great tournament. They weren't playing at a high level when it mattered most. Their most impressive performance was against us, and that was because Curry decided to go off. They did not exactly have dominating performances over Albany or Creighton, and didn't even look like they belonged on the same floor vs Louisville. I think Syracuse was better, or at least they were playing better.
It wasn't that they had easy opponents. It's that they had almost entirely up-tempo opponents, and only finally lost to the only one that was better at that style than they are. If they had played a half-court team with bigs, they'd have been toast. Kansas was the closest to that, but not really. There were about 20 teams that played a style that probably would have beaten Michigan, but they didn't have to face any of them.
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