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Very risky. What happens if he ever gets a 5-star big man? Then they go inside out all day...
For now, exactly right. They're just not built to win on the road or neutral big courts consistently. But i don't want to find out what happens if they ever get a true star center. It's like Jud when he got that one amazing piece, knew how to coach around it well enough to get a championship.
Some people might just want better players. Who do you take? Green or Novak? Seems pretty simple. If Izzo recruited Novak it would be another Delco Rowley . Just a bad decision.
When Jud had the misfortune of recruiting those clowns from grand rapids, he was quoted as saying, "I can't trade him, so I might as well use him." And sure enough, people would cheer for them.........like Bronx cheers, because you knew they were overmatched.
UM, Green Bay and Chicago teams all have one thing in common: They all suck
Yup, and I hope he gets the misfortune of facing us one last time in the B1G tourney. On a neutral court at tourney time, we'd kill that team. I really, really hope we get them again. Winning the tie-breaker against them would be a great way to start another amazing tourney run.
If you actually think Jud was dissing those guys with that quote, you didn't understand Jud's humor.
Leader? Best player? You're out of your mind. One good game against MSU does not turn him into either of those things. It's Burke, then Hardaway (still) and then Novak. He rebounds out of necessity, at a rate of 4.7 whopping RPG. What clutch shots has he hit in his career? Keeping the game close against MSU doesn't count.
Dawson would sit behind Novak? Sorry, but that's way off. Dawson shoots 57% from the field, Novak 49%. They both grab the same number of boards, despite Branden playing 13 less minutes. Branden has more blocks per game and steals per game. Only think Novak has is FT shooting and 3 point shooting; all this, as a senior no less. Novak can't hold Dawson's jock.
Jud never relied on a 'piece' . The concern about Jud was whether he would assemble the talent necessary .
So are you saying that Novak couldn't have helped the last two years if he played for Izzo?
This post was edited by duffy munn 2 years ago
He is an average player; his grittiness and toughnes are good qualities. Don't spin this into a race argument please.
This year=Thornton; last year= YOU probably would have helped.
Not a Novak fan, sorry.......
Not race baiting at all. I just find it interesting that the same style of play/player can be viewed both ways. Not my fault Novak happens to be a gritty, tough, white guy.
So true. Jud just didn't have the ability to go into a 17-18 year old's house and try to convince (beg) the guy to come to MSU. That was Jud's only real shortcoming.
UM has a 'black guy' Eso Akunne who plays sparingly. You know what he brings? Hes a gritty, tough, black guy. Preferred walkon. Classy kid. Same dynamic as Novak: not good enough .
Why do you do shit like the above? I don't get you. You can't have a straight conversation. Green or Novak? You're kidding right? What about one of the stiffs that come in off our bench in garbage time? You said he wouldn't be a scholarship player, so compare those kids to him, not our best player.
Ask their team. He's their senior leader. I call him their best player because for a couple years he's been their +/- leader. (Like for us Green is this year, and Lucas and Green last year.) Burke will end up better, but for now he's really getting way overhyped. Hardaway is never going to have it. Wrong personality. He drifts, like Summers did (but with half the hops and rebounding of Summers).
I'd take 4 years of Dawson over 4 years of Novak. I'm just saying that as a senior with his hustle and understanding, Novak be playing over a freshman Dawson That's glaringly obvious...am i supposed to prove that? Novak's shooting % is lower because he shoots at distance and every game against guys way taller than him. Dawson's shots are almost entirely layups and dunks.
I'll stop, since i really hate defending scUM, but it's just i read some of this crap that's so blinded by the dark Spartan green goggles, i can't help but try to be reasonable.
You are looking at this situation in a vacuum, which is a mistake. Novak has had the in-game experience to develop into what he is; and he is STILL below average. I guarantee that if Thornton had been force-fed thirty minutes a game since his freshman year, he'd be putting up double digit points as a senior, due to an exponential increase in confidence, leadership abilities and in-game experience. If you can't recognize this, then there is no point in discussing this with you.
Novak, as he is, would help. There is no chance though, that he develops as he has playing 5 minutes a game under Izzo. Because that is what he would be relegated to.
None of us can be objective about this. Let's just bump the thread when B10 all-conference teams are announced. Novak will be 3rd team, Dawson will only be on all-freshman team. Thornton will win our Oil Can award. Apples and oranges and pomengranates.
I am just underscoring the point that Novak was not recruited by Izzo or by many majors for a particular reason. As another poster mentioned, he was given carte blanche to play at UM since they 'sucked', gained alot of experience, and has been a contributor for UM. Does that mean he would be at MSU? Absolutely not. So that's why I also compared him to Thornton.......who is probably on par with his talent level. Sorry I disagree ......
Oh no, not the +/- shit again.......isn't that a different thread?
Novak is at best, their 3rd best player, and that is including alot of intangibles that stats (like yours) don't consider. And he is rated this high BECAUSE OF THE INTANGIBLES. He's probably their 5th or 6th most talented player.
And that's pretty good for a guy who was barely recruited out of Pudonka, Indiana......
He will graduate from UM, with 4 years of major division one basketball on his resume. Not bad for an average ball player.
This post was edited by Clemenza 2 years ago
I knew Jud. And it was funny.
He was at his best when he was ripping players he liked. Skiles, "slow, fat, and couldn't jump" line was classic.
Jud on Kirk Manns: "Well, Kirk has really worked on his ball handling and defense. He has improved 100% in both categories but let's not kid ourselves, he still is not very good at either."
Sorry, basketball isn't judged by the +/- system. It is a valuable resource, sure, and we all applaud you for your effort, but no one in their right mind would call Novak Michigan's best player. Burke creates Novak's shots for him; how many wide open looks would Novak get if not for Burke's quickness and ability to kick the ball out? (Same story applies to Novak benefitting from Morris).
Again, you are ignoring the fact that everyone arguing for Novak is looking at the situation in a vacuum; give Novak the developmental time he would get at MSU (in comparison to the 30 minutes he got at UM as a freshman and on), and he is nowhere near the player he is today (which is still mediocre).
Are you honestly faulting Dawson for being able to get his own offense? Novak's looks are ALL set up. Dawson creates for himself the majority of the time with sheer athleticism. This may be your most stupid point yet. You'd rather have the guy whose only offense is chucking up shots at a lower percentage, than the guy who can create high percentage opportunities for himself due to athleticism and tenacity? Good luck with that.
lol--Classic Jud. Manns was one of the better pure shooters at MSU. Lucky for him--he did pretty much suck at the rest of it.
So, you wouldn't trade him for any of those guys I saw get up off our bench in the last 30 seconds to try to get in? That's what your saying. Not our starters, but our walkon. You said he wouldn't be scholarship. No thorton comparison's no Green comparisons, our stiffs on the bench. You'd take a pass? O.K., I get it now.
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