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If Rousharded is our OC, Maxwell is our QB and Samuels and Staten are still on the staff it's almost a sure thing this gets bumped.
Sadly at least 3 of those 4 are almost sure things.
Posting member of tRCMB since 1997.
It is ALWAYS a great day to be a Spartan!!!!
Well Wisconsin seems to do pretty well troll....
I've heard from a source that we typically turn away 5-star recruits, since 3-star guys are deemed more coachable. Just fyi.
In general, it's good to have a top 10 ranked class. See Bama, LSU, UGA, USC, OSU etc..
However, it is not the only thing that matters in terms of winning.
If you look at Wisconsin's classes for example, they are usually in the 25 - 40 range.
We are generally right in there also; could we pop up into a 15th ranking every now and then? Sure. But we will never recruit in the top 10 consistently, for a number of reasons. Recruits that decide later are given more stars to garner interest in their decision, not to mention the fact that services rank guys higher when they commit to certain schools.
Just for fun here . . . I'm breaking the top 25 into 3 tiers
The top 10 classes have 26, 22, 21, 22, 26, 26, 13, 31, 29 and 21 members. With one notable exception, these are the high #, high quality classes; each has double digit combined 4 and 5 stars. The 13 is USC, which has a ridiculous 6 5-stars and the 31 is TAMU, which is insane. 29 is UGA, who is taking advantage of the SEC back-dating rule to early-enroll something like 8 guys.
#11-20 have 22, 18, 21, 23, 20, 20, 23, 19, 14 and 16 recruits. Here you find the very high quality low-# classes; the 18 is FSU with half their recruits being 4-stars (9), the 19 is Va-tech with 1 5-star and 4 4-stars, the 14 is Texas with a whopping 1 5-star and 8 4-stars in that 14 man class and the 16 is Auburn, which has 1 5-star and 7 4-stars.
#21-#25 have 23, 23, 20, 25 and 21. Here you start hitting quantity over quality: all 5 of these classes have a lower average star rating than MSU's 3.12, but all have at least 3 more recruits than the Spartans as well.
A few other thoughts: 5 of the top 10 and 10 of the top 25 are SEC schools. Only 1 school (Auburn) has fewer than 20 recruits and 6 have more than 22. Those schools are known for attrition and oversigning, so I'm not shocked to see their #s high.
In terms of the Big 10, Michigan has 26 recruits, but is ranked behind Ohio State's 22. That's because Rivals only counts the top 20 players, meaning tOSU's top 20 are better than UM's top 20.
As this applies to MSU, anytime MSU recruits fewer than 20 players, they're leaving "points on the table" in terms of recruiting rankings. That's why I think the average stars are better than the overall points to determine the quality of the class. MSU's average stars have them at #26 nationally and #4 in the Big 10, .05 average stars behind Nebraska (3.12 for MSU, 3.17 for Nebraska).
This post was edited by MalibuMan 18 months ago
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
If you can't find peace with bowl wins & 11 win seasons then maybe you shouldn't be an MSU fan. If you need a strong recruiting class, on paper, to be happy, then I pity you.
UM had top 10 ranked recruiting classes 2 out of the 3 Rich Rod years.
This post was edited by Tupes 18 months ago
Obviously scum and Florida State having top 10 recruiting classes for years has done wonders for their programs...
And really the difference between 20 and 40 is minuscule and almost entirely subjective.
We only have 17 scholarships available. So next year we should be good. I like the type of player we have been getting though. Other than Notre Dame and Bama we have been matching up pretty well talent wise w/ everyone we have played over the last few years.
This post was edited by rodent 18 months ago
But look at Texas. Yeah, a good class helps, btu if you can't coach them it doesn't matter. Bama has the best of both worlds because they can develop talent and they get the best players.
If you get good talent, but can't develop them, you're in for a bad time. (See Texas.)
If you get above average or average classes but can develop the talent well, you'll be okay. (See MSU, Wisconsin, Louisville recently, etc.)
If you get good talent and can develop them, than you're great. (see Bama)
I'm not foolish enough to argue that high recruiting rankings guarantee wins or championships.
How about this:
Average Star Rating by Class for MSU since 2002, the start of the Rivals Era:
2002: 3.1 (Bobby's last year)
2003: 2.63 (JLS 1st class)
2006: 2.54 (JLS last class)
2007: 2.7 (MD's 1st class)
An average below 3 means that you brought in more 2-stars than 4-stars. An average above 3 means that you brought in more 4-stars than 2-stars.
As you can see, for 6 straight years MSU brought in more "2-star" talent than 4-star talent. With the 2013 class, there will be 4 of 5 years with more 4-stars than 2-stars and the 1 exception is the 2011 class which featured 2 4-stars, 2 2-stars and 10 "high 3-stars".
In short, there's been an "on-paper" improvement over the last 5 years, with very few "reaches", and about a 2:1 ratio of 4-stars brought in vs. 2-stars. That's a 180 from the JLS/beginning of MD era, where you saw about a 2:1 ratio in favor of 2-stars over 4-stars.
You would think JLS' classes would be a little higher due to the number of offensive playmakers he was able to bring in
But I guess the poor defensive recruiting offsets that
Dantonio's recruiting classes have all been average (just outside top25 to middle of pack 50) except for the 2009 Class with Bullogh, Gholston, Baker, Lewis, etc which was like top 15.
Gholston was 2010
Bullough, Gholston and Lewis were 2010 recruits. Baker was 2009.
He also took huge classes and a lot of JUCOs. You'd be amazed at the # of 2-stars in 2004 and 2005. 2006 had 7 (SEVEN) 4-stars in it, including guys named Devin Thomas, Eric Gordon and Charlie Gantt, but it was the lowest average stars because of a plethora of 2-star recruits, many of whom did absolutely nothing at MSU.
I really think the improvement under MD comes from raising the floor; i.e., the lowest ranked guys in a class are still mostly 3-star guys, who are considered "AQ Conf." material. The 2-stars taken from 2009 - present have been big bodied projects (Hoebing, Fennell) or guys with injuries that prevented them from getting a bump during their SR year (Waynes, Lang) or Kickers/Fullbacks (Muma, Palazeti). Oh, and some dudes named Le'Veon Bell and Darqueze Dennard . Point being, the 2-stars being brought in aren't "reaches" like they used to be.
Anyways, here's some more food for thought:
2004-2008: 18 4-stars, 40 2-stars
2009 - 2013: 23 4-stars (including 5-star Gholston) and 11 2-stars
The staff can recruit and develop LBs and DBs. Other than Ohio St., MSU has been as strong at these positions as any B1G team.
The OL recruiting is a joke.
Given the sour personality of Dantonio, we need someone who can be a likable presence with these kids....like Dan Enos.
When he's out at CMU, he should be back on the MSU staff within the hour.
Attention star gazers look at Dantonio's highest rated class. 2009
10 four stars. Look at some of those names. Most of you douches probably don't even know who Jeremy Gainer or Donald Spencer are. A lot of those guys didn't even pan out some to injury and some just couldn't cut it and left. Then we have one of the most beloved Spartans of the dantonio era Leveon Bell as a 2* in 2010. Stars really don't matter outside of the top 25 to 50 can't miss prospects from the south, Texas, and California, recruiting rankings become a crap shoot. They don't matter after that. Plain and simple the spin stops here. Justice league can tongue my nads fwiw.
I hope so he was instrumental in bringing a lot of those highly ranked guys in '09-'10
I thought this was a hoops-related thread at first after losing out on Parker
What is that, a Titleist? A hole in one...
Off topic question. how is tO$U able to take so many players? I thought they had their numbers reduced by 3 a year for several years.
Urban doing some roster management.
Old played out wrong perception is old played out and wrong
Sure, the end of JLS start of Coach D the OL recruiting wasn't great, and those are kid who would have been veteran leadership on the line the past few years. But they got passed by better talent that has been brought it on the depth chart as recruiting has continued to improve. Are we bringing in multiple 4 and 5* OL in every class? No, but given where we were, where we are, the OL recruiting has not been a problem.
Ray, Barrent, Klatt, Conway, Treadwell, Burkland, Jackson, Clark, Clemons, Finley were all high 3* or higher coming out of HS. Allen was a mid 3* with Wisc and Iowa offers (develop good OL) and a F-AA. The problem with the OL has been injuries (Klatt, Barrent, Treadwell, Conway, Burkland, Jackson) delaying development and forcing kids who aren't yet physically ready for high level D1 football into action and guys getting bounced between the O and D (Treadwell, Reynolds)
If injuries hadn't forced him to retire, Barrent would have been the LT last year and this year, not France. The staff almost burned Conway's RS as a true freshman in the 2009 season to start him at RT, then a series of neck injuries have ended his football career. Klatt should have been contributing on the interior of the line by now, but lower body injuries have hampered his development and prevented him from gaining the needed strength to play at a high level. Treadwell played DL, moved back to OL, and has missed time with various injuries. Jackson and Burkland have both had serious leg injuries early in their careers. Unless you could have seen all of these injuries coming, to call the OL recruiting a joke is idiotic and revisionist history.
Go Bears, Blackhawks, White Sox, and Pioneers.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand
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