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Geeze, anyone here notice that Football season is OVER...
Can we give it a rest and obsess over something more important right now... how we're going to lose all the rest of the basketball games because...
and have a nice day...
Nίκη για MSU
Considering a change in BigTen tiebreakers, and a roughing the punter penalty kept us from going to the Rose Bowl for 2 years in a row WITH that kind of recruiting, I'm not sure it will take a miracle.
This post was edited by NigelUno 15 months ago
The O-line got dominated in too many games for us to win 10 or 11.
Not to mention Wisconsin has seen three rose bowls with similar recruiting. Someone let old man Tan out again.
Defense improved drastically from '07 to '08; many fewer sacks, but better fundamental D (true soph CLR and true FR Johnny Adams helped a bit, as well a Otis Wiley). 2009 was paying the piper for JLS' poor defensive recruiting, as well as the fact that Dantonio's 1st 2 classes were RS Sophs and RS FR in 2009 (and those classes, as I've pointed out earlier in this thread, were actually subpar compared to the last 5 classes).
Anyways, if you look at the rankings on Rivals, the difference between #39 MSU and #31 Tennessee is less than 90 points, aka, 1 high 3-star recruit. As I said earlier ITT, if MSU brought in a "full" class of 20, with the 3 new guys being mid 3-stars, MSU would have the #24 class in the country.
In short, MSU has low scholarship #s because of minimal attrition and their class quality is 26th in the nation, better than any Big 10 team outside of UM, tOSU and Nebraska, and they're .05 stars away from Nebraska.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
Thanks Rocky. It's nice to read a balanced and knowledgeable analysis of MSU football.
Another thought is that the 2008 team actually was WORSE in terms of total offense than the 2012 unit (343.46 YPG v.s 359.31). The big difference was scoring offense; 2008 averaged 25.08 PPG and 2012 averaged 20.
This is going probably make some people mad, but Le'Veon Bell's speed was a big part of the difference. Ringer rushed for 22 TDs and Bell for just 12; 70 points over 13 games = a 5.38 PPG difference. The run-blocking in '08 wasn't any better than '12 and was probably worse; Ringer averaged just 4.2 YPC to Bell's 4.7. The difference is that the few times that there were holes, Ringer could take it to the house (vs. UM, for instance) and when Bell got those holes, they'd be 25-30 yard gains that set up field goal tries.
I love Bell for his power, balance and vision, but he was not a big play, one touch score type RB. MSU really needed that element this season, just like they could have used a bruiser back in 2008 to take some carries from Ringer.
I disagree. We were a good quarterback away from winning anywhere between 9 and 11 this year.
How did we win 11 games in 2010 and 2011? Our offensive line wasn't much different in those years than it was this past year.
"losing Caleb Benenoch is a blow that Dantonio will never recover from. Izzo has lost it as well. Hoke and Beilein own the state."
Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.
We had plenty of 4 and 5 star play makers making a contribution to that team. Granted Cousins turned out to be the greatest QB in the history of MSU football, as he was a gamer all the way. Look, I trust MD, but he has got to start winning some recruiting battles or the crap will return as we saw last season.
Garbage. A weak OL and dozens of dropped passes were part of the equation. Maxwell was far from great but putting this on him is weak. Also, there were 2-3 games where we had the lead late in the game only to have the defense give up long scoring drives. The point is there are numerous reasons for going 7-6 this year and the QB situation was but one.
Yes, there were numerous reasons for going 7-6, but the number one reason was Maxwell, without a doubt. The quarterback is the most important part of an offense.
The defense wouldn't have been in position to give up the lead late in those games had we had any sort of competent offense.
Look what happened in the bowl game. We won that game because Dantonio went to Cook. Nobody knows for sure what would have happened if he stuck with Maxwell the entire game, but I don't believe we would have won (and many here would agree). That's one example right there that we lose with Maxwell but win with a different quarterback. And what's even more crazy is that I wouldn't even categorize Cook as a good quarterback.
If we had a good quarterback, I think we win against Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska, Iowa, and Northwestern. If Cook was able to replace Maxwell and get us a win in the bowl game, a good QB playing the entire game gets us wins in those other five (or at least 4 of the 5).
Been saying this all along. It wasnt Roushar's play calling, it was Maxwell's inability to make a play when it matter. MD refused to pull the hook on him. You see coaches changing qb's all the time if one isn't making plays. Why the coaching staff stayed with Maxwell is beyond me.
This post was edited by Tanfan 15 months ago
Yea, you mean like 3-star Cousins throwing to 3-star Cunningham, 3-star Martin, 3-star Linthicum while handing the ball off to 2-star Bell and being protected by 3-star France, 2-star Foreman, 3-star Jackson, 3-star McDonald and 3-star Fonoti?
Or the defense, led by 3-star Worthy and key contributors like 3-star Denicos Allen, 3-star Johnny Adams and 2-stars Trenton Robinson and Darqueze Dennard?
There were about 5-6 4-stars that helped out MSU in this run: Baker in '10, Norman, Bullough, Gholston and Lewis. So I don't know about "plenty" of 4-star and 5-star playmakers; there were a few, about a half-dozen, that actually made big contributions. Not one year-end starter on O was a 4-star in '11, unless you want to count Nichol, who was a 4-star QB.
This year the O had 4-star Burbridge, 4-star Burkland, 4-star Treadwell, 4-star Maxwell and 4-star Sims. Tell me how that worked out.
It wasn't a coincidence that the offense started to move the ball better after Maxwell was benched in the bowl game
Rogue Leader= Obese coward who didn't attend MSU and has no college degree
I think that we took 1 because 1 wanted to commit. We didn't go after guys like Dillard and Thomas because we didn't want them. Fair enough.
Depth on the offensive line is the hallmark of a good program. It's why Alabama is Alabama. Guys go down to injury, transfer, graduate, have family issues, etc. This year, when people were talking about how banged up our offensive line was....Yeah, that's what happens. That's why you have depth on the offensive line.
When you take 1 offensive lineman in a class, it's not a good sign. Especially with how talent rich the midwest was this year. It means that we have to load up next year. That is more important than stars or class rankings
I think you're right, though the receivers certainly had a lot to do with it in the early going (up through the OSU game). Quite frankly, I think Cook wasn't ready mid-season to do a darn thing, and they weren't going to burn O'Connor's RS. The big problem here was that Boisture, the guy they brought in to compete with Maxwell, hurt his back and retired from football during his true FR year. If he was healthy, he would have competed with Maxwell for the #2 QB job behind Cousins last year and all through the spring. That meant that if Maxwell got hurt for the spring game, you would have had Boisture vs. Cook instead of all Cook, all the time.
Cook was supposed to be part of the competition for the spot after Maxwell graduated; Boisture v. Maxwell, then Cook v. O'Connor, etc. Didn't happen due to injury and you're left with the mess that was 2012.
If you are given the lead late in a game, it's up to the defense to protect that lead. No excuses. And as good as the MSU defense was this season, there were breakdowns in crucial situations that cost us games.
Ok, but that's beside the point. The defense could have stepped up on every series and help secure more wins.
That doesn't change the point I'm trying to make that if we had a good quarterback, we would have won 4 or 5 more games.
Replacing a bad quarterback with a slightly better bad quarterback for only a couple series got us an extra win in the bowl game. Imagine what would have happened in our other games if we could replace that bad quarterback with a good quarterback for the entire game. We are 10-2 at worst with a good QB.
said just about this exact same thing a few times this year. Love Bell, kid was a beast especially considering a lot of us thought he was coming in as a FB. Team really could have used a Langford, Hill, or even Caper to be able to step in and give us that home run threat. Unfortunately it never materialized.
The first time MSU basketball aired in France the French surrendered to Tom Izzo just to be safe.
Problem is, as I said above, that Cook was not at even his "bowl game level" during the regular season. In short, the staff didn't have any options to go to, which relates back to the issue with Boisture retiring from football.
It also has to do with the staff being unwilling to burn O'Connor's RS, but since I've never seen the kid in game action, I can't really speculate as to whether that would be an improvement over Maxwell.
Another consideration is that, by all reports, Maxwell is a fantastic practice player. I think the coaches were surprised to see the drop-off from the practice field to game time and weren't prepared accordingly.
I completely agree with you. I don't blame Dantonio for not making a QB change. I don't think we had better options throughout the regular season. It was just an unfortunate situation that led to a 6-6 year.
Javon Ringer had 2 runs of 40 or more yards in 2008.
Le'Veon Bell had 3 runs of 40 or more yards in 2012.
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