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OK, I know Mike Mayock is not the end-all-be-all, but I have seen other "expert" rankings, and the 3 MSU early departures are no where to be found. Hell, most have Marcus Lattimore ahead of Bell:
Bell probably not, Gholston and Sims most likely.
Gholston and Sims could both have gone much higher.
These rankings don't mean shit right now. Combine will change everything.
Interesting. Have each of them signed with an agent? Because if they're not going in the first 3 rounds....
My Blood Runs Green.....
Gholston and Sims will definitely rise after the combine.
Bell was absolutely not a mistake.
Gholston and Sims I think both could've worked their way into second round picks next year if they had stayed healthy and had nice seasons.
The combine could change a lot. Scouts will droll over the size of both these guys
I think the rules for football are different than hoops. Once you declare, that's it. I've never been wrong before - just ask my first wife.
Players can back out as long as they haven't signed an agent, but the deadline to back out was January 18th.
I think 99% of Spartan nation understand had Bell stayed, we'd have given him the ball 35 times a game and frankly that isn't in his best interest. He's an NFL full back with good hands and the ability to block. He needed to go.
We also all scratched our head a bit at Gholston and Sims but understand circumstances in their personal life might dictate what needs to happen.
What's done is done though and all we can do now is wish the the best. I hope we don't have Marcus Taylor type threads on them in coming years if it doesnt work out. Those decisions had to be tough on them.
Honestly with big years from them both they could have made it into the first round. Staying healthy would be a factor but barring an injury with good seasons + good combine i could see it. Both are freaks athletically, just needed boosts in production.
Well, to the point of the thread, yes, all three made a mistake in judgment. Without belaboring what I've said in the past on this point, here's a summary:
First, it's bad judgment to ever leave a University that has provided you with a full ride to a degree in something of your choice before you play out your full eligibility. Players leave college for professional sports early all the time. I, for one, say that's nearly always a mistake with notable exceptions like Magic Johnson. So, that's my baseline. And I in no way begrudge any person their right to leave early and actually make bundles of money. I am first in line to cheer those who will make bundles of money. On the other hand, fine, you can go make bundles of money, but we all can comment on it, too, and we don't have to kiss up to the guys who do it and wish them well. I don't wish them ill, but I'm not happy they have screwed over our program and left early.
Second, consider, in this regard, if you are inclined to utter the ignorant bromide that early departures are "good for the Program in the long run." That's crap. Putting guys in the NFL and NHL and so on are good for your Program in the long run. But early departures kill your Program. They kill it. Early departures say to me that the student-athlete used your school as a steping stone and the first chance he got to bid adieu he took it. And that example to younger players will give them the license to do the same. The impact is felt immediately and all you have to consider is how good MSU would have been next season with all three guys.
Third, you can make bundles of money and still play out your college eligibility. The injury rationale is a farse. It almost never comes into play. If there's that big a concern, buy an insurance policy.
Fourth, particularly in the case of Bell and Sims, I'm noting the utter lack of loyalty to the MSU Spartan Football Program. I believe you didn't have to have a great deal of imagination to read between the lines of the flat comments made by Coach Dantonio about the early departures. There was no wishing them well. In both instances, Bell and Sims were shown a red carpet to MSU Football when other schools on the Big Stage had given them the cold shoulder for different reasons.
Finally, I'm not going out of my way to kiss up to this in any way and calling any of these three guys, including Bell, "great Spartans" as it turns my stomach. They simply are not great Spartans. They were good Spartans, for sure. That they gave it all up on the field in an honest effort, particularly in the case of Bell, does not, alone, make them "great." This is not a one way street. Loyalty plays a role. In the end, they spurned Coach Dantonio and the staff to go make money---to the detriment of the Football Program. Don't candy coat this. Also, I understand fully it doesn't make them bad people. I'm sure they are fine people, even God-fearing people. But they are not "great" Spartans. Great Spartans are Larry Caper, Kirk Cousins, Jim Miller, and so on. Guys who stayed all four years and put it all out there every game and showed pride in being a Spartan.
Christ man... Don't you learn?
For the love of Trevor...™
I'm a very good learner. What's your point?
Nope, football is a violent and has a short career.
Where does that obligation end in life then? When you're working for a company which is giving you a great salary and benefits you should turn lucrative offers down if you're part of an ongoing project that won't be complete for six months?
I think we tend to look at it as the university is giving these kids everything and these kids aren't giving anything back. They're more then paying their way IMO. Also, if the guy that recruits them can leave, or gets fired they still must stay. We disagree on this. Those kids IMO have paid their way and earned more then they were given by MSU.
This post was edited by DWags 14 months ago
IMO I think Bell and Sims made a good choice. Sims because he has a history of injuries, and Bell because why punish your body another year for free, when you could get paid for it. Gholston probably should have stayed because he has the most to learn from all the players. If Gholston had great technique, he already has the new prototypical body size and speed NFL scouts are looking for and that would make him a top 10 pick easily.
We can't tell yet.
I read your previous post and the one above, DWags, and gave this some thought. As you know, I always genuflect at the DWags alter of good sense and knowledge.
So it's interesting the comparisons you make which, on the surface, are supportive of early departure.
But . . . if I worked for an organization making a good salary and benefits, I might leave for a better situation, but I would never do so leaving them in the lurch on a project that could be done in six months. I wouldn't do it. I'd say to the potential new employer that I feel obligated to stay and finish up. I think both the current and, particularly, the new employer would be impressed with that decision. If the potential new employer is not, I wouldn't want to work for it anyway. And, talk about the long run? I think that position does you far more good than jumping like a whore to the first person that offers you more dough.
As to the beating a running back takes, I simply don't buy it. Yes, he takes a beating, but so do players at other positions. Get an insurance policy on injury.
And in the special case of Sims and Bell. I mean, come on. Sims was damaged goods, accused of selling stolen property from the Detroit Public Schools. MSU kept that scholie out there when Miami and others pulled the plug. And this is the thanks Dantonio gets? As for Bell, his own high school coach tried to explain why schools in his own back yard like Ohio State didn't offer. He, in essence, said that he was lazy. How did he put it? I think it was something like Le'Veon didn't "excell in practice," or something of the sort. I think the only offers he had out there were from MAC schools. Whatever, MSU offered.
MSU and Mark Dantonio are trying to emerge as a perennial football power. We ain't gonna do it with three guys leaving early every year. It makes it very difficult if not impossible to build your Program. And this ties into a previous point I made in another thread: What is the purpose of MSU Football? If you think the purpose is to put players in the NFL, then you are always very happy to have early departures and you think it will only "help" the Program. If that's your attitude, don't expect to win Big Ten Championships and be ranked in the top five nationally. It will simply never happen. If, however, you believe that the purpose of the MSU Football Program is to win, then you simply have to discourage the notion that any player who can possibly be drafted by an NFL team should leave the very first chance he gets. That attitude will mire MSU in mediocrity and frustration. It wouldn't surprise me, then, that Mark Dantonio & Co. will then move on to a school that will allow him to win.
This post was edited by BillOGoods 14 months ago
That you're an idiot
Why don't you explain yourself, Big Fella? How is it I'm an idiot?
time will tell but I am with the majority here: Bell didn't have anything else to prove and he was just going to beat up more. Gholston....damn shame, really needed to stay for reasons already listed. Sims pisses me off because this staff, team and university was there for him when he needed it most and he took off at the first opportunity....normally I'd say a player owes his team and university NOTHING but that wasn't the case for Dion. Wish him luck as I think he's gonna need it. (he doesn't block well AT ALL for a man his size and he isn't fast...however, he does in fact have great hands.) How does his skill set fit in today's NFL? It remains to be seen but I see him going 6th or 7th round. Will should be gone by end of 4th round as should Bell.
Thank you. But if any of these players are still on the Board in the third and fourth rounds . . . . Ahhhhhh, I think that would qualify as a major mistake in judgment.
LeVeon Bell has given his body to this school. Considering that he plays the position with the shortest shelf life in the NFL, he was 100% in the right for declaring early. Anyone who claims he has cheated this University is an utter moron.
Good points and I admireyour ethics. I just feel the university and staff isn't as ethical to those kids as we would have them be toward the university.
As of right now, both sides are following the rules ad laid out for them. As much as we might disagree with them.
You can always go back to school. You may never have a chance at nfl/nba/nhl money. If you have a chance to get it, you take it. It makes you no less of a spartan to give your all and get money early. Look how well staying 4 years worked out for Durrell. He missed on tons of money just to come back and get ripped apart by our fanbase. These are once in a lifetime opportunities that you can't take for granted. You may not get it next year. If you're prepared for a career then msu did it's job and you did yours. End of story
And they did that, they gave their current "employer" 9 months notice that they will not be available for the next big project.
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