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Did Bell, Gholston, Sims make a mistake?

  • Exactly. The program is (or at least better be) bigger than any three players. If it isn't considering this will be MD's 7th season, he should walk away. However I saw MD take in a 2 star RB at the last second when MSU's starters were mediocre at best. In each of his three seasons, that RB turned into a plow horse who carried this program on his back for a while. Now we've lost that RB and my only response is something that MD himself has probably learned and said before (I know Belichick and Saban both use it) "Next man up.".

  • Sometimes you used too many words - confuses people.

  • You make no sense. Apparently, you re-read the post, you see you were wrong. Instead of apologizing like a man, you concoct your silly dream, complete with a false quotation, about why I had to mention Magic. You're a little weird, my friend.

    Then, for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with this issue, you assume I have "no faith" in the current players and that I'm disrespecting them. I've done nothing of the sort. As I've said before, however, when you figure out how to win with your best talent leaving early every year, drop us a line. You'll be the coach of the year. Then, why don't you answer the only question this post is really about: What is the purpose of the MSU Football Program if it isn't to win?

    Finally, who am I ripping? Read the posts. I haven't ripped anyone. I've commented on mistakes in judgment by players, the very topic of the thread. I've shown that no less a figure than Mark Dantonio, himself, appears to agree more with me, than you.

    You can have your dreams and your made up thoughts. They can't take that away from you, Bluth. But don't try to pawn off your tripe as thoughtful conversation. You're just a bag of wind.

  • Didn't read the whole thread, but BillOGoods is hilariously egotistical. Post more, Bill!

  • Gob_Bluth

    So you're denying that you said they screwed the program by leaving early? How was I supposed to interpret that, oh wise one?

    "Finally, who am I ripping? Read the posts. I haven't ripped anyone."

    Let's see, you've called those three out for a lack of loyalty, questioned Bell's work ethic when he's done nothing but work his ass off in G&W, and implied that their decisions were made without any serious thought. I think that pretty well covers it.

    Would I like to see those three playing in East Lansing for one more season this fall? Absolutely. But I also recognize that they've played a key role in 29 wins over the past three seasons, delivered a conference title, took MSU to the CCG, and won back-to-back bowl games. They've accomplished A LOT, and if after a lot of thought they decided to turn pro, I can't begrudge them that decision. They are great Spartans because what they accomplished on the field helped return MSU football to respectability.

    tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.

  • Okay, I'm going to work with you a little bit, Bluth.

    You put what you said in quotes. You don't ordinarily put in quotes what you say. You quote others. I didn't say what you said I said in quotes, or otherwise. I could have said they screwed the Program, but I didn't put it that way. I won't nit pic. Have it your way. They were disloyal when they had good reason to stay, help build the Program under Dantonio, who wanted them to stay. That's kinda spitting in the face of the guy that gave you the big stage. But have it your way.

    Next, in my way of thinking, Bluth, it isn't ripping someone to describe what they did. I said clearly they were good Spartans (not great). I said they gave their all on the field of play (but that, alone, doesn't make them great Spartans). I said they certainly have a right to do what they did. It's okay to make money. Thankfully, Obama hasn't made a rules about players leaving college early, yet. So, it isn't ripping anyone to say they were disloyal in leaving when that's what they were. It isn't ripping to accurately state they have hurt the MSU Football Program, because they have. You say it's a rip. I say it's an opinion that describes reality.

    It doesn't matter if they gave their decisions serious thought. It's still a bad decision. I have given decisions serious thought that turned out bad. Don't ask. Bad. Horrible. It made the decision worse that I gave it so much thought. Otherwise, I could have chalked it up to impetuousness.

    You have a lower threshold for who is a great Spartan. Too low. It disrespects truly great Spartans. it is enough to say these guys are good Spartans who will be welcomed back. I don't begrudge them for the decision, but I'm not putting them on any pedestal, either. And I'm ready to do something more to stop this from happening. As I said above, a punk-ass thug like Lewan returns to SCum, passing up, supposedly, millions, and our guys all bolt first chance presented to them. it's embarrassing.

    This post was edited by BillOGoods 14 months ago

  • I will be unavailable for posting until tomorrow, as I must attend a very exclusive gathering of important and prominent persons in the community at a well know, but, for our purposes, unnamed location in a wealthy and highly prestigious venue. I have come to this station in life because I attended MSU for all four years and obtained my degree. I could have left early as my academic performance and scores on the LSAT would have allowed me to attend several very prestigious law schools without my undergraduate degree. However, after giving it a lot of thought and out of loyalty to the University, its faculty, and my teammates I decided to return for my final year. I can only imagine what it has cost me in terms of that extra year I could have had billing clients and racking in the fees, as well as the lost opportunity costs on those earnings compounded over the years. I also think of those unfortunate clients I could have helped, but never met on account of my selfish decision to return to Michigan State to get my degree. I shutter when I think about what could have happened if I'd been hit in the head by an errant object and been rendered an imbicile or worse.

    I took that chance and never looked back, except maybe once or twice.

  • I just call it as i see it. Anyone who selfishly demeans a college kid for taking the opportunity to better his family and his own life is an idiot. Now i like bog and enjoy his hockey posts but this notion that players owe something to this university other than to make the best living possible and lead the most productive life is asinine

  • Gotta go. But there is no ego here but, instead, a selfless endeavor. Pay attention and you, too, might learn a thing or two about a thing or two.

  • Gotta go, really. But i guess you disagree with Red Berenson, too?

  • I wish them good luck. It was their decision to make and they made it. When I start doing rehap with them when they get injuried, I will take decision making process more personally.

  • Now some of you know what I dealt with for a few years with RC and BOG.

    Anyway.......

    IMO, all three made a mistake. Gholston will have the best chance in the NFL of the 3.

    See my game worn MSU jersey website. www.msujerseys.com

  • Gob_Bluth

    In your very first post in this thread, you said, " I don't wish them ill, but I'm not happy they have screwed over our program and left early."

    So...yeah.

    tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.

  • Gob_Bluth

    roflmao You're ridiculous. What's the average career length for a good lawyer these days? In the case of Tanfan, lawyers can keep earning well into their 90s. Average NFL career is less than five years. This is a terrible comparison.

    And it's "shudder". For all your lofty rhetoric, you make a lot of basic spelling errors.

    tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.

  • I'm cooking beer butt chicken on my deck and making risotto tonight with my very hot MSU wife. My daughters will forgo their plethora of friends tonight to hang out with their parents. We'll watch the The Spartans together afterward. I will have wine, the kids will have some kind of kids drink, and my wife will have whateverthehellshewants. Know why? Cause we're fucking Spartans. That's why. I attended MSU for 7 years, my wife for 4 if you're keeping score.

    Everyone enjoy the evening. You're Spartans.

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  • The teams that passed on Bell and Sims made a mistake. Those two and Gholston have made their decisions. I think they probably got some bad advice, but nothing is guaranteed in the NFL even for seniors. All we can do is wish them good luck. I think they will all go before the 5th round and I think they will all make rosters.

  • Not likely. I learn from the intelligent, not the wannabes.

  • BOG - do you always talk down to people?

  • He's a lawyer who has ties to Country Day. He can't help it.

  • Just the opposite. You cannot point to one post I've written in which I talk down to anyone. It am a man of the people, by the people, and for the people. While I party with the elite and am considered by others to be elite, my identity is not such. The common man is my witness and the middle class my home.

    But you other guys all knew this, before, and now DH knows.

  • This thread is full of hilarity. Might they have made a poor decision? Sure, they may have. Will we ever know? No, we won't.

    MSU Football is not "about" winning, or putting kids into the pros. It's not. It IS, however, about ONE thing. Sorry to break it to you, fellas, but MSU Football, along with MSU Basketball and every other football and basketball program in the country, is about MONEY. The NCAA and all its member programs are a business. End of story.

    The business will do what is in the best interests of the business. Its employees (see: student-athletes, even though they are not getting paid) will do the same - what's best for them. Period. If the employees see a better, bigger opportunity (see: NFL) present itself, they'd be foolish not to consider it. For some, taking the opportunity will be the correct one, and this may be for a number of reasons. There is no one precise reason to take a job and leave another. We all have different priorities in life, and one person's moral high ground for not leaving a job may not be in another person's mind.

    Case in point: I'm a 5-year undergrad Spartan. I love MSU and bleed green. Back in October, I decided I wanted to pursue an MBA. At the time, I was working for the Red Wings and knew I wanted to stay in sports. So, I looked at a few schools, including MSU. MSU has a great MBA program, but it is geared towards a business world - not what I was looking for. I ultimately chose SDSU because of a great, sports-centric MBA program, and also the fantastic weather (I'm sick of snow). I had my reasons and nobody has the right to say I'm wrong because of them.

    Now...am I a bad Spartan because I didn't go back and do another 2/3 years for my MBA? Hell no. I'm as diehard as I ever was. I go to viewing parties out here and wear MSU gear and everything that a Spartan should. But I chose to go a different path in my life.

    Bell, Sims, and Gholston did the same thing. They saw an opportunity present itself that they felt, for WHATEVER reason, was too good to pass up. Does that make them less of a Spartan? Absolutely not. They played for 3 years and played well (when healthy in the case of Sims) and played themselves into a position where they can now represent MSU in the NFL. Good on them. They are helping the MSU Football program, by being ambassadors for the University and showing recruits that MSU is a good program and you can get to the league by playing here. It's an endorsement of the school, coaching staff, players, and program as a whole.

    This ridiculous notion that they should finish what they started is asinine. Insurance policies can only do so much - ask Marcus Lattimore. Why should a kid risk the rest of his career, while playing for free, as opposed to getting paid, which is what we all want to do in life? If a kid has, God forbid, a career-ending injury, he will NEVER make as much money as he might have had he gone to the NFL.

    This is just my twocents but nobody will EVER convince me otherwise that a kid leaving MSU to go pro is a bad thing, regardless of how many question marks we have at that kid's position. Ultimately, players make decisions in their best interests, just as businesses do. College football is not, never has been, and never will be a 4-year-contracted commitment. We all need to remember that.

    Congratulations Le'Veon, Dion, and William. Do us proud in the NFL!

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by dubie7006 14 months ago

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  • I think Gholston made the biggest mistake. I've seen Sims on draft boards as a top 2-3 tight end, and athletic tight ends are all the hoopla in the NFL now. (Just look at Gronk, Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, Owen Daniels, etc.) Gholston should have stayed and finished his career off the right way, while also playing better. I thought he was better in 2011 than he was in 2012 and I bet most would agree. He regressed. If he can't generate a pass rush against a down Iowa team, how will he evade 330-pound NFL OTs?

    Bell is a running back, a workhorse. Why would he stay? Get paid while you can. The shelf life for a tailback is like 2.5 years, if you're lucky. Some make long careers out of it, others are left in the dust. Great decision by Bell.

    What is that, a Titleist? A hole in one...

  • Gob_Bluth

    Found one.

    "But don't try to pawn off your tripe as thoughtful conversation. You're just a bag of wind."

    tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.

  • PersonaNONgrata

    Sims-NO
    Bell-Hell NO
    Gholston-NO

    All three are NFL players. Best of luck to those guys.

    signature image signature image signature image

    "You make sure when you come, you got a little blood in your eye, a little blood in your eye, a little fire in your belly. We there yet?"

  • You've mixed up a bunch of subjective observations and economic principles to come out where you are.

    Of course these guys have the right to make their own decisions, as you did. But we have the right to comment. That's not the point, is it?

    Your answer to the question "what's the purpose of the MSU Football Program" is a semantical trick. Of course it's money at the core, but winning perfectly equals money. Losing equals monetary loss. The more wins, the more money. Fewer wins, less or no money. The MSU Program wants more money. To get it they simply must win. There is no other way. To dismiss winning as the purpose and say it's money is to say exactly the same thing with a different word.

    But that isn't the "end of story." We all agree a "business [and its employees] will do what is in the best interests of the business . . . ." Or, better said, everyone will do what they think is in their best interest. A player may go pro before his college eligibility expires fearing injury, but he can get injured the first week in his pro camp and never play again. What then? He thought he was doing what was in his best interest and it turned out it wasn't. MSU offers Joe Blow a scholie with high hopes, but he's injured in summer camp and never plays a down, or gets addicted to drugs and is kicked off the team. Everyone thought that was in their interest, but it turned out not to be so.

    So, the point is that a player can think that his best interests are to leave early and take the money, but a good advisor may say, like in the case of any of these three guys, that either or both of the following considerations could be in their best interest, as well:

    A. stay another year and try to win the Heisman Trophy, try to lead the team in sacks, or try to set a Big Ten record for catches in a season by a tight end, all of which would likely enhance their monetary reward from the NFL;

    B. There is an ethical or loyalty factor to consider revolving around what the Program has done for the player and what the player may, then, owe to the Program and that can have value, like money.

    We can all agree there are ethical and loyalty factors that exist, right? We could decide to think more highly of someone or less of somehow on account of how they weighed the ethical, moral, or loyalty factors in a situation (or the person may decide its important to himself to have made the right ethical choice). The point is, it’s legit for the player to take that into account.

    Case in point, Tyler Lewan, the SCum thug, who is returning for his senior year despite being a slam dunk first round draft choice. Are we saying he didn't decide on the basis of his own best interest? Of course he did. He calculated that the esteem and good light in which he would be viewed by others, along with his college experience continuing, was worth the millions in monetary compensation that would have been his a year earlier. Who's to say that isn't equivalent value. You? Based on your post I think you would agree.

    Finally, you deciding against the MBA and being a "bad" Spartan for it and comparing that to these three guys just deciding to take "a different path in life" is way off the mark. You stuck it out and graduated from MSU, i.e., you used all your eligibility. Had you gone to MSU for three years and transferred to SCum, we would be perfectly in our rights to call you a traitor and a fool and a hypocrite. I'm not calling you that, because you didn't do that.