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I'm suspect Cinci would call MD a "Great Coach" but not call him a "Great Bearcat" (that's Cinci's name right?). If he had said something to the effect that he wanted to finish what he started there, then he'd pick up the loyalty factor. There have been a bunch of coaches that have turned down the big-money to stay and become legends... that's basically what this is all coming down to though.
If you remove the actual player names from the discussion and ask what the difference is between a "Great Athlete" and a "Great Representative for your University", the two will have some similar tie-ins but not 100%. All the nerd engineers out there will understand if I say a "DOE" around those two categories... and the ones that get the buildings named after them later have the +'s next to both.
Some players may not enjoy the college "experience" and may have a great appreciation for college later in life.
Kaline, Alan, and Sweet Lou skipped college and went straight pro. Should we ask them if they missed anything by skipping college??? KG, Tyson??
Its interesting to see people trying to debate the "economics" of coming back when we really have no idea of any of the variables involved.
Here is the interesting duality I seen being thrown around quite a bit these days:
- On one hand, its takes a very long time to make up those "millions" that could be lost should a player suffer a career ending injury and just get a degree instead.
- On the other hand, there is really no discussion of the huge difference (these same "millions") between being a maybe-a-3rd-rounder and being a 1st rounder.
You really have to ask yourself what the ceiling is for these players to come back for another year to really appreciate the economics of the situation. That is why I think Bell is wise to leave, while Gholston and Sims are foolish. Bell simply isn't going to get his draft stock to rise much more above where it is now. It's only going to go down, so he might as well give it a shot. I think we can all agree that Sims and Gholston have quite a bit of growth potential at this point however, so why is nobody talking about those "millions" being left on the table?
The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude.
I don't know that we all agree on it. However, I do think we all agree that Johnny Adams might have hurt his draft status by coming back. All any of us can really do is watch and let these kids make damn hard decisions. I remember being that age and wondering if I should go to the Riv or Ricks and thinking damn, this is tough. These kids are making hard life decisions and we know it alls would gladly give them our advice. Good luck to all of them, I hope they've made the right one, and I'm damn glad they were Spartans.
Even for Adams, how much did he really hurt himself coming back? If he goes out last year, gets drafted somewhere in rounds 3 - 5, and has a "bad year"? He's on waivers and on his way to a practice squad somewhere. For guys not in the first round, there is really very little guaranteed money. Its a tough call either way.
Yep, thats why I prefer to leave it to the kids and hope for the best for them. What I do hate is making fun of Spartans after they have made a life altering decision on what turns out to be bad advice or because of life circumstances and we see threads about "how stupid" they are etc. Lord, like I said, the hardest decisions most of us had at 20-21 years of age was what bar I was going to go to and try to get some that night.
This. The kids know far more about their own situations and "the best choice" than we could possibly know. I enjoyed their success at MSU, and I hope they kick ass and take names in the NFL. It's that simple.
tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.
I would punch my 21 year old self square in the face. I was an idiot that thought he had everything figured out and was a step ahead of everyone else.
It's a good question, but there is no comparison. Cincy was paid for their loss. The contract was honored. When a player leaves early, it's a one way uncompensated loss for the Program.
It's only "hard" because the "kids," typically 20 and 21 year olds, are breaking a commitment and they need to think hard how they can rationalize it to themselves, the coaching staff and fan base. That's why it's hard. I'm sure they consider themselves loyal guys to their teammates and coaches, but this is an anomoly to them.
They want the money and NFL lifestyle. But still want to see themselves as stand up guys. Which they are not.
Don't get me wrong. People are reading into my opinions here that I resent the choice. I don't. It's fine. Like you, I think it should be the player's choice. It's just disappointing to see guys like Bell and Sims, in particular, who have a debt of gratitude to Dantonio and staff and they, in essence, break a code of honor or devalue the benefits of playing all four years because some gel-slicked dufus is telling them shit.
No, we need not ask them. But let's ask the 99.9% of starry-eyed dreamers who made it no higher than AA in Bristol, PA, and now have no carrier, no college education, and are waiting for Manpower to call for odd jobs---oh, and they are trying hard to support their two and four year olds while mom, the Class A groupie, is cleaning toilets for extra money. That's who you ask. And, not that there's anything wrong with Manpower and cleaning toilets. No sir. But when you could have been on your way to a degree in engineering, it's a bad choice in anyone's book to have turned pro too early.
I'm amazed that you continue to attack the character of these Spartans.
And one more thing about "leaving it to the kids . . . ." Dantonio is obviously dishing out advice that isn't being followed. But there is a lot to be said about taking advice from the right people. If they are really "kids," i.e., not sophisticated in the ways of the world, Sims, Gholdie, and Bell should not be trusted to make such an important decision or, at the very least, their decision should be highly scrutinized---not rationalized after the fact like a lot of the analysis has been in this thread.
yeah...that IS dickish btw
This post was edited by SPARTICUSS 14 months ago
You're "amazed"? You're not amazed about that. You're amazed that someone on this Board was perceptive enough to understand what's really going on with these choices in most instances. The decision is made to leave college town ASAP and then it's just a rationalization so as not to look bad for breaking a commitment. Now, that isn't the whole story but it's at least 75% of it.
Are you 12 yet?
That would be my biggest fear for these kids. And it's not always a "gel slicked rufus". It sometimes comes from the closest family members. I do know that a lot of these kids grew up with empty fridges at home and their life is not anywhere near the one we lived. I don't know about these three in particular, but some really are desperate.
This is where you are dead wrong. I'd bet that Coach D has no problem with these kids chasing their dreams and supports them 100%.
Just wondering is Dantonio not a great Spartan for not letting Arthur Ray stay on the team? I mean Arthur Ray had to stay on the team for his remaining years right? So thus since he is gone to play for someone else he isn't a great Spartan. MD offered him and he was "in debt" to keeping a player so inspirational, and determined to be a Spartan. So are they both not good Spartans?
I've told him this, he refuses to believe. He thinks he is above everybody else, and at this point I really think he is fishing for responses the way he is openly dissing Spartans. He has such a fucked view of these kids that play at MSU. He thinks they are slaves to the program and that we own them for 4 years, and if they leave before that its a breach of some fake contract where he thinks they need to stay all 4 years. Even though these kids are all on 1 year scholarships that don't necessarily renew (say if you played for someone like Urban).
EDIT: IB4 he asks you to cite any info on where MD is happy that they are leaving early .
This post was edited by PPTPWmsu 14 months ago
Bravo. I didn't want to go the "slavery" route but that's what BoG is likening it to. There is no contract in college football. If a kid wants to leave...again, for whatever reason (this can even include things other than tNFL)...he has every right to. We don't own him. He is not "property". He is a student(-athlete) at a public institution and is free to leave as he sees fit.
If a collge education is important to them, they will get it.
the fact that you continually attack the character of these kids is ridiculous and frankly I dont know why it continues to be allowed because it's nothing short of slander. You don't know them and you don't know why they are deciding to leave MSU. They were great spartans and helped this program to levels it wouldn't have seen without them. Now they have a chance to help their personal lives to levels they might never get another chance at. I can speak to 2 of these guys as being very stand up guys through personal experiences with them and guys that quite frankly this world needs more of. But go back to selfishly attacking them knowing nothing about them other than they made a decision to leave MSU to provide a better life for themselves and their families. That sounds more like something a stand up guy would do anyway.
Or decides not to play fball anymore. Of course, MD can remove his schollie
This post was edited by Ron_in_ATL 14 months ago
I haven't read all the way through this thread, so someone else might have already said this. But, the purpose of college is to prepare for the real world and get a job. It just so happens these guys' jobs will (hopefully) be in football. Don't give me some loyalty to the program BS. For the best players, college football is a stepping stone to the NFL, but that doesn't mean they're not out there trying to win championships. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
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