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I would agree with you that you shouldn't count spectacular catch attempts as drops, but avoiding drops is basic and they need to fix that, yet they also need to be playmakers. Go back and watch film from 2009-2011, you'll see Cunningham and Nichol making plays where they went and got the ball, just being more physical, out muscling the defender for it, and Martin just running by people. Other than Burbridge, I don't see that type of play from anyone in this current cast. As I said in another thread, about half way through last season I looked up our receivers on the roster and saw most of them were in the 6'2-6'4 200 lb. range and I was shocked. I would have guessed they were more in the 5'10 170-180 lb. type of players. So while I hope your analysis is correct, that the basics of catching the football should improve in 2013, that's only part of the problem from last year.
This post was edited by vator88 12 months ago
Instincts? If our DBs had better hands he would have thrown two INTs, including one for a 100 yard pck 6. Cook is flashy and he takes risks. Heck, even his big touchdown pass was a poor decision that required a great play by Arnett to bail him out. That throw was into double coverage. If those had Ben scholarship DBs on that play, it's likely broken up or an INT.
Cook makes some brilliant plays, but he also makes some TERRIBLE decisions. On Saturday, Maxwell didnt make a single bad decision. In my eyes, that's the most important part of playing QB with this team.
So you'd rather have a guy that doesn't make many bad decisions but has proven that he can't lead a competent offense or throw the ball down field over a guy who might make some bad decisions but takes chances and seems to have moxie and better pocket presence.
Basically we can settle for Maxwell and guarantee an anemic offense that will make the defense win every game, or we can go with Cook who will score points and turn the ball over.
For me, it's Cook easily.
I agree on both points, while we are certainly looking for the offense to put up 24 pts, we absolutely can't be spotting teams 10.
Apparently you can live with another 13 games of what we witnessed on offense last year. I can't.
Sounds like an awful lot of rationalization to me.
I guess. I saw it differently. Maxwell made good decisions. To me that IS an improvement from last year because I felt he made some poor decisions. I wish he had thrown a better deep ball to Mumphery, but both Cook and Maxwell struggled with overthrows on deep passes throwing with the wind on Saturday.
As for Fowler, yes he had the two drops, but he showed toughness ghness as a downfield blocker on a few plays and he took a hard shot on a 10 yard dig, bounced off of it and went 50 yards with it. Plus he took another big hit and held onto the ball for no gain. He had some bad drops but he also made some tough catches. You have to factor in both fora fair assessment.
So dropa by walkons who won't sniff the field in the Fall is an accurate way to predict fall performance?
I don't think that's the offense we will see next year. Maxwell made solid decisions and the receivers made plays. Just because it is the same players doeant mean it will be the same results.
Yea, I'll take Maxwell's 9 INTs in 13 games (6 over the final 12) any day of the week. He needs to bump the TD passes up from 13 to 20 or so though, raise the completion % to close to 60% and his YPA to at least 7. Long ways to go at QB.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
Stats are for losers, just win some god damn games.
Cute. You'd realize that a 7 TD increase in production is 49 points, or enough to win every game MSU played last year. I didn't just pull those #s out of my rear.
Was the offense competent last year? 66 drops tells me it wasn't. I don't think he's proven anything one way or the other. His numbers were as much a reflection of how poor the receivers were last year as him.
Also, for all the so called "pocket presence" he has, Cook sure doesn't complete a lot of passes and he scrambles out of the pocket a lot. Cook was below 50% completion percentage in every scrimmage this spring and in the bowl game where he "earned" his cult hero status. If that is the definition of pocket presence then I hate to see what no pocket presence looks like.
As far as pure passing goes, Maxwell had the better game. He threw for a higher completion percentage, he didn't even come close to throwing a pick all game, and he led a drive late in the game to win it.
The only real stat that Cook "outperformed" Maxwell in was yards passing. But even that was a misnomer of sorts. It wasn't like Cook was completing long bombs with his throws. Both QBs struggled with the deep ball. Both QBs were completing short and intermediate passes. The difference is that Cook's receivers made more plays after the catch. Fowler, Burbridge, and Hill all had big gains on medium depth passes after they caught the ball that added to Cook's passing yards. Even on short passes, Cook benefitted from extra yards. Like when Arnett caught the zero yard swing pass and took it for 7. Who really was the difference in that play?
Cook got several plays like that while Maxwell only had the Troup TD. It was the play of the individual receivers that made the difference.
Bottom line is thar Cook may turn into a good QB some day, but I'm not ready to give the keys over to a guy who only completed 38% of his passes. I don't care how much "moxie" he has.
Somehwhat agree with you.
Brett Favre or Trent Dilfer? Take your pick.
It was just a mistake;
I didn't mean to let them take away my soul.
Am I too old?
Is it too late?
Are you me?
If the three walkons had caught Maxwell's passes, he would have been 13-20 for 145 65% completion percentage and 7.25 yards per attempt.
Just goes to show you how much those walk ons drops changed the perception of Maxwell's performance.
Both won super bowls. Although I would say Maxwell is MUCH closer to Dilfer than Cook is to Favre. Favre still managed to conplete 62% of his passes.
It's alarming how many people think we're going to have the 110th ranked scoring offense again based on a sample size of 40 mins of mix-n-match teams. Or how you guys are already forfeiting the season over a fucking spring game. Sack up.
Like I said, it doesn't change my perception one bit. I watched the same guy that I saw all of last year, and I wasn't impressed. And you can't just say what a guy's stats would have been if WRs made all the catches. If those catches were made and a first down was the result, who's to say Maxwell doesn't throw 2 more incompletions on the next series? Or maybe he throws a pick 6 after the first down. Or maybe he throws a long TD pass. Nobody knows what the stats would look like had every guy made the catch.
And you talked about how Cook's receivers had more yards after the catch. I don't think it's a coincidence (or just because he had the better receivers). I wish I had video to post to show the plays I am talking about, but I recall a couple times where Cook stood in the pocket, let things develop, and hit a guy across the middle. Those are the plays that are more likely to result in yards after the catch.
Maxwell rarely does this. Everything is a quick pass to the sideline, and receivers are rarely hit in stride with throws from Maxwell. It's so hard to sustain a long drive that results in a touchdown with the type of throws that Maxwell makes.
Honestly, just based on the eye-test it seems like the offense just is more efficient and plays harder when Cook is in. I don't know if the players respond to Cook better than Maxwell or what, but there's no denying the improvement we saw in the TCU game when Cook came in, and then in the spring game the Green offense stomped on the White offense.
Obviously he doesn't have the greatest completion percentage, but he leads touchdown drives.
Cook does seem to have better chemistry with his receivers, but he's equally likely to make a frustrating throw into double coverage or some other mental gaffe.
CMU game was a perfect example. Completed 6 consecutive passes, looks in a rhythm, and then tossed an inexplicable pick 6 that should never have been thrown.
As he matures he will get better but from what i've heard he throws plenty of picks or near-picks in practice as well. Dantonio is not going to choose a QB who puts the defense, which is the identity of this team, into worse positions.
On the flip side, it's amazing how many people think the offense will be any better when we lost the only player that provided any offense last year.
So punting 12 times a game is putting the defense in a better position than the possibility of a turnover?
I guarantee the defense would rather have a guy who takes some risks instead of a guy whose best attribute is throwing a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 9.
Its ALL about the receivers. And there really isn't an argument otherwise. Certain players are juat playmaker type guys and some aren't. Fowler keeping his footing after a solid shot to run for 40 more yards had nothing to do with Cook. Cook threw him into the hit and Fowler had the toughness to shake it off and go.
Hill would still be running on his 40 yard catch if Cook hadn't underthrown the ball. That pass certainly wasn't in stride.
Burbridge broke tackles on a few of his catches. That is all individual effort not afdected by Cook.
Also, lets not foeget that on both of Fowler's drops he either threw behind or to the wrong shoulder, thus making the catches more difficult.
Lastly, he flat out blew it on the throw where Lippett tried to make the diving leap. Lippett beat the defense badly and eould have walked into the endzone if that ball was on target. The bottom line is you just look silly complimenting a guy on his accuracy when he isnt completing more than 40% of his passes.
I won't excuse any drops. They were all unacceptable. The one thing that is encouraging is that the WRs had a lot of separation against even our DBs. The frustrating thing about the drops is that a lot of them were wide-open looks. I will take guys with unreliable hands getting open and at least having a shot at it over guys who run crappy routes too slowly and give the QB no chance to make a throw and no chance for a play.
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