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Sorry, I'm not trying to be heavy, but I am in need of moral clarification and this is my go-to place on all issues moral and philosophical. Here's the (long) story:
I give a little money to this church by my house because they let me park one of my extra cars there, and they do good work with the homeless. Today, I'm taking advantage of said parking space, and this ex-homeless guy who does work around the the church hails me after I get out of my car. (I did some volunteer work for the church last summer so he considers us buds.)
This same guy told me a couple of months ago that he was helping a 19-year-old homeless guy clean up his act, so I asked him about the kid. He said the kid is doing great. He got him into a program in north Florida that he graduated from 20 years ago. The program provides food and board in exchange for work around the farm up there. The kid has been in the program for five months and is off the streets AND he has memorized Romans. I oohed and ahhed at that. I'm not in the least bit religious, but I am an English teacher, and the idea that they could get some 19-year-old headcase to memorize a sizable (?) text is impressive.
At any rate, the plot has thickened, it seems. The 19-year-old is doing so well that his brother, who's also homeless, is now also in the program. Part of the program, the ex-homeless guy/homeless mentor tells me, is that these homeless guys are supposed to contact everyone they've ever done something wrong to and ask for forgiveness. He's mad at the the father of these kids because the older brother sent a letter to the father asking for forgiveness and the father told him to go soak.
I'm making conversation so I said, "Wow, that's pretty harsh. What did the kid do?" The homeless guy hems and haws and then told me, "Well, there's been some talk about things that were said and done to the sister." I asked if the brother in question was older than the sister he molested and the guy seemed to say that the girl was older than the brother. I can't be sure because, you know, clarity is not this guy's gift. But, if I understood him correctly, this was (1) something that happened a long time ago but just came out, and (2) what led to the father kicking the brother out of the home.
The ex-homeless guy/homeless mentor told me that he asked the father, "Didn't you ever do anything stupid when you were young?" He then added, "And the kid says she led him on and had boobs out to here." Up until then, I was pretty firmly of the mind that the kid was a dirtball, but if she had boobs out to here, that changes everything. I mean, right?
At any rate, this forgiveness thing comes up again and again in life. It's the sort of thing they promote in public service announcements, on facebook, etc. But where do you draw the line? I mean, what is literally NOT forgivable? Is what that kid did forgivable? Does it make a difference if he was older or younger than the girl? Does it make a difference that her boobs were out to here? I'm very confused on this point.
"Look at this. An entire generation of Cinderellas, and there's no glass slipper coming." -- Mother in ALMOST FAMOUS
Pics of sisters "boobs out to here" please.
This seems to have hit a little close to home for you. Sorry if I offended you.
Hey, there's probably a Joe Pa appreciation thread on the Penn State board. Maybe you'd be more happy with that.
That's not Nucky, dude. Legit poster.
Thank you, Denicos.
I really want to offer advice, but I just have nothing to suggest. Good luck though!
Did. Not. Read. LOL.
The answer is no. If you want to forgive, that's a choice you can make.
It's not a moral necessity to forgive anyone. Entirely up to you.
I'm not sure where you're coming from, GM. Are you asking if the kid's father has an obligation to forgive? the church? you?
All I can provide is a mental image: picture a very rotund man in his late fifties or so, with teeth that would make an Englishman blush. He holds his arms out approximately eight to nine inches in front of his chest to signify what "out to here" means.
Not really fap material ... but in all seriousness, it probably shouldn't be. This is a thread about a kid who, apparently, sexually molested his sister and is now connected to a program that has forgiveness as a key component. I feel for the dad. This guy says he's been "reading the father the riot act." What would you do if you were in the dad's shoes?
If I was in the father's business I'd tell him the matter was between me and my son. He is an interloper and should realize that.
Yes, I am. Forgiveness is a foundational principle for a lot of religions, isn't it? I know in my own life I've been asked to forgive people who have done some pretty shitty things, and I've never known what the moral universe expects of me. ????????
correct...I had a NICE looking sis growing up. SUre as hell NEVER thought of her in that way. WHich is probly good cause she turned out to be gay anyway.
Yeah, it is but I'm agnostic so I'm not real forgiving. Seriously, it depends on the offense and how or even IF that person is contrite. Those are my guidelines. Use your best judgement and pray on it GM....kidding....don't pray on it actually.
Forgiveness is a matter of the heart imo. While in theory saying that someone should forgive the offender is a fair statement, a lot of times it ignores the context of the situation or relationship of the involved parties. I know of people that didn't forgive the offender and had very good reasons for doing so (just moved on and cut the other person out of their life). There might be more to this story or situation than what you were told.
This post was edited by sprtnbrn 14 months ago
You're weird for noticing, perv.
Its not really up to the dad to forgive the son. Thats the sisters job since she was the victim supposedly. I mean we don't even know anything about what happened anyways.
And none of this even makes sense. The kid has to right wrongs to get into a homeless help program? Why didn't he just leave this one out or why doesn't the dad just say he forgives his son to get him into the program?
It sounds to me as though you are putting yourself in the father's position and wondering what you would do in his shoes. That's an impossible question to answer (difficult enough for him, for crying out loud) -- you don't have any idea what the facts are behind the entire situation. You also aren't the father of the victim.
As a general matter, while forgiveness is at least a key foundation of Christianity, the flip side is that judgment is reserved for God. That's not commonly observed, either, as a quick look around this place will confirm. This does not mean that punishment should not be delivered -- "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto God that which is God's." Society's laws must be followed, as well as God's laws, and the kid may run into a buzzsaw there.
Not sure that helps. I really think you have to clarify your question to yourself before you can begin to answer it.
If he asked for forgiveness and the other person wouldn't give it, it's out of his hands. His "part" is done in it
I have ethics. I do not have morals, thus I do not believe in "moral necessities." It's all on you to decide for yourself.
Location: Mumbai, India
Great answer. Very thoughtful. Thanks.
What in the fuck...so if your sister wasnt gay you'd be kicking yourself for not trying to tap that?
He'll no!!!! They can rot in hell!!!
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