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I am constantly blown away by college basketball fans who have no concept of NBA talent. The only NBA player on Michigan's roster is Burke. Michigan State has 1, maybe 2 NBA players in Harris and maybe Payne. Payne has developed into a likely 2nd round pick at this point. This isn't in anyway a negative on MSUs other players (or UofM for that matter), its just a reality. Look at Draymond Green. Would any of us take Payne over Green? Dude went in the 2nd round. Look at Jujuan Johnson from Purdue. He was basically a better version of Payne (and Payne may get there by next year, but his inside game needs work to compare to Jujuan Johnson). Jujuan went 27th overall, and he is in the D-League now. In my opinion, there is zero chance that THJ makes the NBA. There is zero chance Appling makes the NBA. Dawson has NBA athleticism, but he would need a drastic overhaul on his shooting to have any shot. I am not saying this to be mean, its just the truth. Nix, I am slightly curious about because I am not sure how the NBA would react to a huge body guy like that. If he does get drafted, itll be 2nd round and definitely D-League. However, he might have a shot, I simply don't know enough about that type of player.
+1 for 'on the reg'
Not understanding the Hardaway love. He's a crappy Durrell Summers without the dunking ability and shit attitude.
If MSU and scUM combined rosters, starters would be:
Next 5 would be
Jordan Morgan off bench (McGary is a joke. He can't walk and chew gum at same time, throws the ball away, makes stupid decisions.)
Hardaway would be benched for Dawson as soon as he started sulking and going through the motions like he does every year. Valentine would be taking Stauskas and Robinson minutes by end of the season, though, andrner 3-shooters are a dime a dozen (except at MSU, where pure shooters never pan out) but Izzo rewards defense, rebounding, toughness, ball movement more than anything else.
"Tonight, we show the world what this program is made of!" -- Brian Ellerbe on Mar 4, 2000, the night of scUM's 51-point loss to MSU.
This is the smartest thing I've ever seen posted on tRCMB
I agree with most of this assessment, however I can see Valentine developing into an NBA player. He just needs to get stronger and a little more athletic and a little stronger with the ball. Kid has NBA smarts and vision and he's a better athlete than I though he'd be. Appling has a long way to go, but he could improve enough next year to get a shot in the NBA.
Its funny the two roads they take with recruiting. They tell us that they are going to dominate because they are getting "better" recruits. When they talk to OSU fans they say recruiting rankings don't matter, its all about what happens on the field.
Yup, Trey Burke is their Kirk Cousins, a 3 star kid who played like a 5 star kid and elevated the team around him.
The thing is, it depends on who is coach. B___ has no idea what to do with a player like Payne, Nix or Dawson. B___ would call time out and ask Appling what he's doing when the other team has the ball ("It's called defense coach..."). Epke Udoh was a fence post when B___ had him...then he transfers to Baylor and becomes a lottery pick.
They flip their opinions so often they can't tell up from down anymore. As recently as this season they HATED Izzo and came up with many excuses as to why he has been successful in EL, including UM's "down recruiting" from the NCAA sanctions. They have spent years disrespecting Izzo and saying that he is only good, and MSU is only good, because UM was down. So now that they're scrambling for a new excuse, all of a sudden it's the coaching. "Oh ya, uh, well if Izzo was here we would be so much better!" That doesn't even make sense anymore.
NBA scouts seem to disagree about the Pro prospects of Hardaway and Robinson, and Payne is definitely a Pro. I don't disagree with a lot of the negatives about the former two, but at the end of the day what the scouts think matters more than what you or I think. Appling could be a good pro... if he consistently played well. If that never happens he can say hello to Europe as he won't stick in the NBA if even given a chance.
Some of the misconceptions about this stuff are due to what gets out to the public. Chad Ford, usually the first guy cited, isn't an NBA scout. He's a blogger who works the phones to NBA offices. People talk about him as if he were a scout.
This post was edited by rookmsu 17 months ago
Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.
Gary Harris > Tim Hardaway. Nix > McGary. Dawson > GRIII. Payne > Morgan or any other big guy they have.
What are these scum fans smoking?
I agree, I love Gary Harris as a player, but some people saying 10th is just stupid. Gary has a lot of growing to do as a ball player, one more healthy year at MSU and I think we'll see a top 10 pick, but right now I'm not sure he would go in the 1st.
Another thing is that the guys doing these mocks never take into account the amount of foregin players that will get drafted. If Forde says 20th, it's more like 30th when the foreign guys are figured in.
I genuinely feel they are the most uneducated fan base in college sports. No other fan base is filled with as much delusion as UM is. All fueled by brand marketing, media hype, and grandeur from yesteryear (how about those wins against Adrian in 1936?)
Think about it.
Performance wise, they have not been nationally relevant in basketball in 20+years and in football in 15+ years (I know UM fan boy would pound their chest and suggest MSU hasn't been nationally relevant in football since the 60's, and that may be true using NC's as the measure, but then again, MSU doesn't go around acting the delusional fool like UM fan boy).
In my experience, NBA "analysts" (not scouts, no one ever hears from scouts for any pro league) just speculate on every popular college player, probably because by talking highly about Hardaway (as an example) during Sports Center, well then that Michigan vs tOSU game the following Sunday might be a little more hyped and a have little better ratings. However, when the NCAA season ends, and the real draft talk begins in June, watch as slowly but surely THJ will slide down further and further down the "projections". The only reason he will even be listed in the projections by draft time is because its more interesting to the casual fan to see Tim Hardaway Junior listed on the TV prompter when they watch some Croatian they've never heard of get drafted while Hardaway does not.
With that all said, yes I agree that Payne is a pro, and said as much in my original post, but he is most likely a 2nd rounder at his current level. Robinson as well as Valentine, who an earlier poster mentioned, I will withhold judgement on for now. Could they improve into a pro level player? absolutely. Does it currently look like either has NBA talent? not in my eyes. Still, I love Valentines game and am very happy he is at MSU.
Lastly, I also will openly admit that I am not an expert, I am simply going by what my gut tells me based on my years of watching college and the NBA. However, just like everyone, I get caught up in the college hype sometimes too. I legitimately thought Draymond might go lottery last year. Plus, lets also note that based on Draymond's current play/roster spot in the NBA, he clearly should have been a first round pick, so obviously the NBA makes mistakes too.
Correct. See Darko 2003
He's also older than Tim Duncan and LeBron James combined. What NBA team wants to take a chance on a guy who is already near the average age of an NBA player (around 26)?
I completely disagree with most of this post.
First off, GR III is certainly considered an NBA talent. Some have him as a potential lottery pick. He seriously doesn't care at all about being at UM (IMO). The guy is an athletic freak and I'm hoping he takes off after this season.
Hardaway JR surely has a chance to be in the league. I doubt as more than a guy off the bench, but he's got an outside shot. If Dawson can develop a jumper he certainly could become a first round pick. I think Payne could be a first round pick if he comes back next year too.
So you know more about NBA talent than scouts then? I'm seeing a lot of the same stuff MindlessChaos is.
This post was edited by Punisher99 17 months ago
I'm trying to be objective about this.
I used to think THJ was garbage. However this year he really has improved his consistency. Sure he has a couple of games here and there where he has disappeared but we've seen similar things from our stars (appling, Dawson, nix all have had 3+ horrible games this year). I think THJ is a very good college player. I don't think he will ever stick on an NBA roster.
I don't think McGary ever plays in the nba. He gets most of his points off garbage/hustle plays. He only reason why he gets minutes now is cuz michigan's bigs are horrible. I dont think he is as terrible as everyone here does, and think he will develop into a good college player. I think Costello will have a better career than him though. I'm excited to see their battles for the next coming years.
GRIII is horrible. I do not think he is a good college player. He disappears against decent competition and beats up on the cream puffs. If he declares after this year and gets drafted, that GM should be fired immediately.
no, lol, I specifically said I am not an expert. I would consider a scout who makes a living scouting talent an expert. However, none of us know what NBA scouts think about these players. All we know is what NBA Analysts think, and they are paid to drive advertising revenue for their network/magazine/website, not scout talent.
UM's problems aren't THJ and Burke, they are with their pathetic big men.
The only big man they have that is worth a shit is McGary and he is still very raw. Morgan and Horford are both absolute garbage.
I might argue with you about OSU. They're basically just Thomas and Craft. Not really a top-to-bottom talented group.
From UM, Hardaway, Burke and GRIII will play in the NBA. GRIII has very good athleticism and an outside shot; put that together with his size, and the scouts don't care as much about consistency from a freshman playing on a team with two other NBA players. McGary will get a look b/c of his size.
Say what you will about Hardaway, but he's a 6-5 SG with a very good shot and solid size. He'll be a bench player in the league.
For MSU, Harris and Payne look to be the likely candidates to play in the Association. Appling will go the Euro route (if Lucas couldn't make it, no way in hell does Appling sniff the NBA). Dawson is very doubtful; there is no demand for a 6'6 SF who can't shoot or handle. Valentine is an intriguing prospect because he has size and passing ability; if he develops his quickness and scoring, he'll get a look.
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