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Read the other article. It was only a matter of time before someone innocent was killed by this guy. His neighbors complained about him openly shooting guns in a residential area. These kids that broke in likely saved the life of a more innocent person. With what we know from the two articles posted this guy is a danger to society and should be locked up for a very long time.
I agree that it sounds like he murdered both the intruders unnecessarily when they no longer posed a threat (the first one may be debatable, but certainly the second one). However, I think its likely he will be found not guilty by a jury of his peers who don't like the idea of having their homes broken into and not being able to defend yourself. I disagree with Ron Jeremy's statement that the homeowner "hunted" these intruders. In my opinion, the homeowner should be able to hide in his own home while armed in a defensive position and shoot on sight and not be required to yell out to tell the intruders where he is and how he is armed so that they can plan accordingly.
1st degree, premeditated. He laid in wait, provided no verbal warnings, then executed the girl.
If the other shooting on property is admissible in court, I have no doubt that he will be convicted.
Well, you may benefit from reading his own account of what happened. If they had died from a single shot, fine, they risked their lives by breaking into someone's house. But by his own account, each received a single, seemingly non-lethal but incapacitating shot, but after that he was just playing the hunger games.
I understand that perspective, but unless they uncover some evidence that he lured them into his house, he was still overreacting to two intruders, which won't satisfy premeditation in court. But you raise a good point that it's even less self-defense that he didn't try to scare them off by yelling up to them. I guess he runs the risk of them preparing and arming themselves by letting him know he's there instead of a surprise attack, but I think most reasonable people would do what they could to keep them from coming downstairs.
It was out in the country, where people are allowed to shoot on their own property. The fact that his neighbors didn't want him to doesn't change the fact that it's a perfectly legal thing to do.
The guy had lived 64 years without ever being a danger to society, and if no one had broken into his home in particular, he wouldn't even have been a danger to criminals. It took an illegal home invasion (which ocurred shortly after another burglary) for this to happen.
I've never heard of psychopaths "hunting" their prey in their own home before.
Multiple threads, posts, and responses have disgusted me and caused me to say an audible 'what the fuck?' tonight. I think I've seen enough internet for today.
When they entered his house, he intended to kill them as evidenced by his own actions and his story of using an additional shot after incapacitating them to kill. He waited for them to enter the basement. He dragged the girl next to the boy's corpse and then killed her. This is pre-meditation. He wanted to kill and when presented with an opportunity concocted a plan and carried it out.
That's a super logical way to look at. He was 64 and never killed anyone and was outside the city limits shooting his guns on his own property. It was only a matter of time til he killed someone? Man I fucked up a lot as a kid but I wasn't a dumb fuck enough to ever break into someone's house. How many times has your house been broken into? My parents had their house broken into 3 times in 5 years when they first got married between nyc and vegas and I remember the last one. I have zero sympathy for the fucks that got shot. Fuck them.
Two lessons here. 1. Don't break into the homes of paranoid old men, especially when you know they have guns that they regularly fire. And 2. Don't laugh in the face of a crazy old man with a rifle. I mean, really. I hope that the guy is making that part up, because that just seems monumentally stupid.
Sorry, you're not going to convince me it's premeditation unless he lured them into his house so he could kill them. Once they broke into his house, it became 2nd degree. I'm pretty sure that even if he had decided that no matter what, he was killing the next person to break into his house, he would have to have planned to kill those two specific people for it to qualify as premeditation. Again, I understand your point, but I doesn't seem like any of it fits first-degree premeditation.
What he perceives as a laugh could be many reasonable and involuntary reactions after 1) being shot and 2) having a gun pointed at your face execution style and having it not fire.
Unless he can prove that he heard more footsteps upstairs (like he did the girl) or that he thought they had a weapon (which I'm sure he would be sure to include in his story if he had) then fear doesn't justify what he did. The first shots at both can be explained as self-defense, the rest seems like a pissed off guy that's had enough. Understandable, but not justifiable.
I wasn't saying he was innocent, I was stating that the debate will be whether the acts were self-defense or not. Therefore, in order to understand whether it was self-defense, one must try to understand the defendant's point of view. This is because if a reasonable person would defend themselves in the same way, then it qualifies as self defense.
laconophilia is everywhere...
Maybe so. But there is no law anywhere, that would warrant a final shot as the girl was gasping for air. That simple.
"...survivors will be shot again"
There's a very simple resolution to this story. Stay the fuck out of other people's houses and you won't be shot. Is that too simple?
I'm not arguing he's innocent slugger.
I knew I shouldn't have responded to your moronic post in the first place because my post would eventually be taken out of context.
You said I was a nut job because I was stating that you have to look at it from the defendant's perspective in order to decide whether it was reasonable to fear threatened. Yet, this is required in all cases where the defendant claims self defense (which he will as he has already alleged that the kids had broken into his house).
My first post in this thread said I thought it was probably best that the guy be put in prison or a facility. I am not defending his innocence.
I am trying to explain to you that it may have been reasonable for him to assume that these intruders had attempted to break-in before, we simply don't know. Regardless of that, he very obviously went too far.
Next time, read what a post actually says, not what you think it might be implying.
Convince me how a reasonable person would stand over an unarmed, gunshot-wounded intruder and be in such fear for his life that he has to shoot the intruder in the face.
Convince me how a reasonable person could stand over an unarmed, gunshot-wounded intruder and be in such fear for his life that he has to shoot the intruder "more times than he needed to" in the chest. Then while she was gasping for air, delivered a "good, clean finishing shot" through her head.
Convince me how a reasonable person wouldn't want to bother authorities with a break in because it was Thanksgiving. Convince me how a reasonable person wouldn't want to bother authorities about two dead bodies in your basement.
I'm sure the family is relieved that as the girl laid there struggling to breathe from a few gunshot wounds to the chest, he was reasonable enough put a bullet through her head to end her suffering.
Dude, no one has a problem that they were shot. The old man crossed the line when he stood over the wounded intruders and executed them.
Convince me how a reasonable person breaks into someone else's house and how you should reason with them. Convince me after said reasonable person is supposed to act after the 2nd intruder is shot and laughing at him? I would be scared as fuck if there were two people in my house that weren't supposed to be there and a person I shot is laughing. I'm going for the kill shot every fucking time.
No one's argued otherwise.
Doesn't change the fact the he executed 2 incapcitated people.
Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance
Why would I have to convince you that a B&E is reasonable? They were breaking the law. You don't have to reason with them.
But, if you kill them, you better be able to prove that you acted reasonably. Being "scared as fuck" isn't enough reason to kill someone. A reasonable person in your situation would have to be in fear of imminent death or great harm if you don't do something to justify a killing. Someone gasping for air from too many bullets to the chest doesn't have a reasonable chance at harming you or killing you.
Well you probably haven't had your house broken into and understand what that feeling is like. After 7 times and nothing changing you fix it yourself. Fuck them.
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