In partnership with CBSSports.com
The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web
The place to ask questions to SpartanTailgate's recruiting experts
"The Duff" is dedicated to Michigan State football recruiting discussion
"The Bres" is dedicated to Michigan State basketball recruiting discussion
This is your pulpit to preach to the masses about everything from politics to religion
The place to buy, trade or sell Michigan State tickets
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
This! Thnk Jahvid Best.
A mod has the right to delete posts as he sees fit. Questioning said ruling violates the forum rules as does repetitive posting. You are defaming a current player.
See you in a few days.
For the love of Trevor...™
You know Jack is incognito. He's actually a Wolvie fan.
Exactly, I don't care if you are an Accountant, if someone comes offering you a ton of money you take it. Put some away in case it doesn't work out so you can finish your degree. College is meant to prepare you for you career and if the career you are pursuing says you are ready, you are ready!
I had a post made and the connection dropped, I think. It didn't make it or was deleted. Either way, in short, here is my point:
Thanks to Bell, he made a name for himself here and a lot of what we accomplished is thanks to his work. If he goes, best of luck and I understand.
Now..Dion Sims is another story. Here is a kid who made bad choices and rather than the program turning their back on him, they helped him back and become what he is today. He owes this program a senior year and frankly, he isn't that good right now anyway.
Formerly Venomous Green Duck. Join Date: Nov. 2004 # of posts: 17,867.
I just don't really see it with Sims right now. He needs to lose about 20 pounds and prove that he is durable.
UPDATE: Our friend has taken to me for consolation in regards to his banning.
I think I've set him straight.
Guess I'm in the minority... I actually enjoyed reading BOG's message - sucks it was deleted and banning occurred. I didn't see anything wrong with it except it wasn't lockstep with everyone else's opinion. Wish I could have read it a second time and dissected it a bit more to find out what the beef is...
Not that I agreed completely with his opinion, but its way better than all the posts stroking the Cocks for beating the skunkbears and *was* MSU Relevant - our offense will take a hit next year without Bell and he does have the opporunity to become more memorable than many of our other great running backs from years past.
That wasn't the reason for his banning, but ok.
In other news.....water is wet.
So, without getting into the technical detail that will add to the list of people being banned... why was the post deleted? What'd I miss there? Only thing I saw was a dissenting opinion that thought Bell should stay for some good (and not-so good) reasons.
Because it was borderline trashing a current Spartan player. Actually, it wasn't even borderline. Bashing the commitment of current players, or insinuating that "owe" anything to the university after 3+ years of giving everything to the university is uncalled for. From the star of the team the practice squad tackling dummy who gets destroyed week in and week out. Degrading Spartans is not tolerated.
Some mods have different tolerances for it, but the poster should have realized that he was doing something wrong to get the post banned the first, second, and THIRD time. Fourth time is grounds for banning (shit, the second time was grounds for it, but I'm a nice guy).
Hope my explanation was sufficient for you (you probably won't get anything from any other mods). He'll be back in a day
Thanks - yup. Sufficient. I didn't read it that way but I was pretty hung-over.
Seriously? I know what defamation is. What was false about anything I said in the post? And I didn't question the rule. I now see it exists. I just questioned your judgment in deleting a perfectly appropriate post. If you don't think so, it's your opinion. That's fine. But I properly expressed my opinion and it looks like it's identicle to Mark Dantonio's. Check out his statement in the article linked, below. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Bell's decision.
Dantonio has yet to acknowledge the departures of Sims and Gholston, who according to various reports will follow Bell's lead and declare themselves eligible for the NFL Draft.
"Those fingers in my hair; That sly come-hither stare; That strips my conscience bare. It's witchcraft." Sinatra
Ummmmm. Jack, you "set [me] straight"? I sought you out for "consolation"? Honestly, thank you for getting me the Mod's name, but I didn't read anything I said in the PM or that you said in the reply that way. It was a simple PM, but all I did was ask you for the Mod's name, you gave it to me, I thanked you, and that was it.
I guess you'll be laughing at Mark Dantonio, too. See article I cite, above. And, next year, when we don't make it to the Rose Bowl, again, I hope you point out to us how these early departures, for the very most part, are nevertheless helping out our program---I assume because all the prestige it brings MSU.
Just a thought to ponder: What's the purpose of the MSU Football Program? Is it to win or to put young men into the NFL? While I acknowledge these are not always separable, when your best people are running for the door at the first chance to play in the NFL AND you think that's good for the programthat this happens and even cheer the people who leave early, then the purpose of the Program isn't really to win, it's, first and foremost, to be a farm team for the NFL.
So, we need to understand that's what's happening and not be disappointed we aren't making it to the Rose Bowl because that's not our goal. Our goal is to get guys to the NFL.
And, if you are right, the purpose is not to win, then Mark Dantonio won't likely be around coaching this team very much longer. Why should he? We don't really want to win.
I appreciate your support of my non-constitutional privilege of free expression on this private message Board which can make it's own rules, does so, and has every right to do so.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by BillOGoods 18 months ago
Dude, you are a fvcking idiot. These kids families dont have much, and they are all projected to be selected in the first three rounds. What guarantees do they have if they come back they won't get injured and they will make more money?
You stupid fuckers on this site act as if its an MSU thing, that no other program has had juniors leave early. Seriously, people who question the strength of the program because some stud players are leaving for the NFL should just shut the fuck up because you are extremely, and I am saying this nicely, extremely ignorant.
Why the fuck would Bell or Sims come back? Give me ONE fucking reason. Bell is the projected #2 draft eligible RB and Sims the #3 TE? Why the fuck would either of them come back? Coming back would be just a terrible decision for both of them. Little to no chance to improve their draft status, and chance of injury. But noooo, these kids should delay their lifetime goal of playing in the NFL and providing a better future for their loved ones because YOU are such a selfish fuck up you actually think the possibility of MSU making a Rose Bowl is more important.
On Gholston, I think he's doing the right thing too. He really didnt improve much from his soph year, so its unlikely he would have gotten better next year. Why delay making hundreds of thousands of dollars and subject yourself only to negative risk? Oh, Sims and Gholston both have kids too. I wish I could banish complete and utter dumbfuckers like you and Dre from Earth, but I don't have that power. How can you be so ignorant? Do you choose to do so on purpose? Holy fuck dude.
First of all, Mlive can suck it for that article title.
I won't take sides on the rest of it, but it is BS that you don't get any explanation as to who banned you and why. I've seen plenty of mods that are gloating in a thread about banning someone (usually someone that deserved it), but if it happens, you should get an email saying who banned you, and specifically why. There are, no doubt, grudges that are held and "taken care of" by mods from time to time.
Other boards have an autoresponse type email that is CC'd to the person banned, with a copy and paste of the offending post, and a notation about what TOS it violates, and which mod initiated the process. Then, you have a "master" email to respond to if you feel the banning was unwarranted. Simply knowing the reason is enough for most disputes, but other times it will reveal an overzealous mod.
Again, it just keeps situations like this from spilling over when a ban has been lifted. Believe it or not, most of us don't want to see the board cluttered with personal spats.
Dude, let me explain how I can be so ignorrant, if I might, without trying to be. Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff was said in the post that the Mod deleted, but I'll get into it any wayz.
First, everyone understands this is the player's decision and he has that right to leave early. But some players, as Coach Dantonio points out much more delicately, eff up and make the wrong decision---47% never get drafted (see link, below) and a percentage, I'm sure, who do get drafted are drafted too low compared to what they could have done had they played their senior year. So, a lot of folks get bad advice. Again, they have the right to decide and we have the right to comment. This isn't a selfish thing by anyone who is critical of these athletes, in any sport, leaving early. Nobody can stop the athlete from leaving early---not even his choach. Am I selfish because I point out something that hurts the program? And, hell yes, I want to win the Rose Bowl and a NC. Hell yes I want MSU to do that. Just like Bell, Gholdie, and Sims all wanted to win a NC and a Rose Bowl. But their interest is personal. Mine is Program. That's not selfish, it's just the way it is.
Second, I don't think the rule is that only those supporting early departure can comment and others cannot. I also don't think the egos of these players is the least bit damaged on account of a post or two on the Red Cedar Message Board that isn't supportive. As to these points, I don't think you're saying that, but I felt it needed to be said. It ties into the "I'm selfish because I want the team to win" as opposed to the poor kids making some dough. Not at all, they will make their own decision and seek advice before they do, I assume.
Third, the MSU Football Program is not about one or two or three guys. It is a team and, therefore, the members of the team and the coaches have responsibilities to each other. So, what I mean by that is they have to buy into team goals and asperations, not just their own. So, why can't they defer their own desire to play professionally to team goals of Rose Bowls and National Championships? That's not wrong, either. Especially when there are benefits to the players in staying rather than jumping ship. Don't these coaches work their own asses off to build a winning program? Ughhhh, yeaaa, they do. How does this really look with a culture at MSU of players leaving early AND the fan base wishing then well when they have just gutted the mature talent and leadership on the field? That isn't the way to win. And, even worse, given an example to the younger players that program goals are irrelevant to their own personal decisions.
Fourth, as I've said before and related to the last point, what's the purpose of the MSU Football Program? You're opinion holds sway, i.e., it only makes sense, if you aren't unhappy losing as long we have talent leaving the team for the NFL even though they have another year they could play. But the MSU Administration thinks otherwise. From the President to the coaches, they know the goal is to WIN. Do you think if you asked Dave Brandon what the purpose of the SCum Football Program is he would say to get our players to the NFL? No, he wouldn't say that. He would say "to win" and all the other things will flow from that.
Fifth, but what do you have to do to win? Build a program. Only one facet of buidling a winning program is recruiting talent. Our coaches have done that. The other equally important facet is to keep your talent for four or five years. They are your leaders and go to guys that get it done. They understand the coaches, their goals, and the system.
Sixth, just how is it you build a program without loyalty from the coaches to the players and the other way, too? In the case of Sims and Bell, there was reason there to give back a little loyalty to the coaches and, in the process, help themselves make even more money later. If I need to explain those reasons in each case, let me know as I don't want to do it here unless I have to. But no, it seems loyalty is a one way street and was not reciprocated. I never heard that any player having a kid or expecting a kid was a factor in their decision. I heard the opposite. I also don't understand that Sims or Gholdie's parents are not well off. I don't know about Bell's parents.
Finally, this is a delicate balance, but seems to have been acheived at other schools, e.g., Alabama, Ohio State, Wisconson, and SCum. Lots and lots of players stay their final year for program purposes, i.e., to achieve program goals---Ron Dayne, Montee Ball, and on and on. How is it you will be a winner year-after-year without keeping your best talent?
And I don't buy the avoidance of injury excuse. It rarely happens in the first place and can be insured against if it's really a concern. It's a "red herring."
There's more, but I've said enough.
Dantonio said he keeps track of NFL Draft statistics to share with his juniors, as he's aware the agents looking to turn a profit aren't always so objective.
Could not agree more.
From this post above, it's obvious you need to stop following college sports as soon as possible. Every significant program every year has people leave early for the NFL. It's how it works. If you can't accept that, be miserable. I fucking weep for you if you follow college basketball given the post of yours that I quoted. Of course, Izzo so rarely puts guys in the pros that you're probably happy with that.
From a recruiting standpoint, players leaving early HELPS THE PROGRAM. You can take that to the high school junior or senior and tell them that you took a two star back and turned them into an early entree third round or better pick. Do you think a high-profile recruit's end goal is getting to a BCS game? Hell no. It's getting to the NFL and the sooner they get there the better. Your end goal is getting to a BCS game. Big difference.
The coaches expected this attrition. You obviously have no idea what the scholarship situation is. MSU is going to be around 87 or 88 scholarships right now even before Signing Day. We are in on Boyd, James and others who we probably would not say no to given their talents. If Gholston, Sims and Bell came back you'd have to take three more kids off scholarship on top of the three at least you already will have to take. Do you even care about that? Or are you so selfish that those scholarship players don't matter?
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand ignore for Bill o Goods.
Should make this thread a few pages shorter.
Thank you, Denicos.
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports