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PSU Scandal: Discussion Thread - JoePa Officially Fired

  • Serious question for folks. And before I ask, please know I think the actions of Jerry Sandusky are as despicable as they come, on a par with say, the feral animals of OWS. But compare his actions to those of Brian Kelly, the head football coach of Notre Dame. By now we all know the story of how he ordered is student manager to climb up the cherry-picker to film practice, on a day when the wind was blowing and producing gales beyond reasonable safety. Documented stories abound on the interwebs and MSM on the abhorrent lack of judgment and responsibility (en loco parentis anyone?) of this decision. Suffice to say that involuntary manslaughter was at play at the time. It is one thing for a run of the mill marxist-infected state university to sweep such an occurance under the rug. It would be a whole 'nother deal for a school purported to subscribe to catholic teaching to do so. However, the particular institution involved is Notre Dame, who is in the midst of a process to totally divorce themselves from church doctrine. (as several Popes roll over in their grave, not to mention Knute Rockne and George Gipp, rip),

    Anyway, not only should Brian Kelly not be coaching a college football team, he should not be a free man. He should have been tried and convicted of at least involuntary manslaughter for his actions that day that his student manager died.

    Which brings me to my question. If you had to pick, who is more immoral, Sandusky or Kelly? Moreover, if people currently employed at Penn St pay a price for the actions of Sandusky, what about those involved at Notre Dame? Do they deserve a pass that PSU doesn't? Does child sex abuse trump murder/manslaughter of any degree? What say you the brainwashed marxists of our venerablr state-sponsored and union endorsed alma mater?? (MSU, we love thy shadows and all that shit.)

    This post was edited by tDanB 3 years ago

  • Dr Leo Spaceman

    jpaw said... (original post)

    not taking anything away from the victims but I would not be against the B1G presidents meeting and discussing dropping Penn State from the B1G for this. The other 11 schools dont want to be associated with this crap at all. Call up Missouri tomorrow and say here's your chance.

    Wont happen, the school will isolate the a.d. And say that they were kept in the dark and joepa did exactly what he should have done.

    It will possibly create a revolution in conduct and reporting in college athletics. This is unprecedented... A high profile assistant creating his own little boy factory to get his jollys... You could argue that everything that went down post 2002 curly is equally as responsible as sandusky... Since this goes back to 1998 when he was told to stop hugging naked boys in the shower... There is a lot of blame to go around.

    On the other hand, the victims will own their own division 1 college athletics program soon, so they got that to look forward to.

    signature image
  • GRR Spartan said... (original post)

    If he was still coaching this may be considered momentarily but in the big picture PSU is more than a guy who was the DC in the conference from 1994 to 1999.

    This already has gone way beyond one assistant coach. There is already a clear pattern of high ranking officials basically engaging in a coverup of child rape.

  • Dr Leo Spaceman

    tDanB said... (original post)

    Serious question for folks. And before I ask, please know I think the actions of Jerry Sandusky are as despicable as they come, on a par with say, the feral animals of OWS. But compare his actions to those of Brian Kelly, the head football coach of Notre Dame. By now we all know the story of how he ordered is student manager to climb up the cherry-picker to film practice, on a day when the wind was blowing and producing gales beyond reasonable safety. Documented stories abound on the interwebs and MSM on the abhorrent lack of judgment and responsibility (en loco parentis anyone?) of this decision. Suffice to say that involuntary manslaughter was at play at the time. It is one thing for a run of the mill marxist-infected state university to sweep such an occurance under the rug. It would be a whole 'nother deal for a school purported to subscribe to catholic teaching to do so. However, the particular institution involved is Notre Dame, who is in the midst of a process to totally divorce themselves from church doctrine. (as several Popes roll over in their grave, not to mention Knute Rockne and George Gipp, rip),

    Anyway, not only should Brian Kelly not be coaching a college football team, he should not be a free man. He should have been tried and convicted of at least involuntary manslaughter for his actions that day that his student manager died.

    Which brings me to my question. If you had to pick, who is more immoral, Sandusky or Kelly? Moreover, if people currently employed at Penn St pay a price for the actions of Sandusky, what about those involved at Notre Dame? Do they deserve a pass that PSU doesn't? Does child sex abuse trump murder/manslaughter of any degree? What say you brainwashed marxists??

    Kelly was negligent but he didnt know the outcome of the action.

    Sandusky knew exactly where he was sticking his pecker.

    Not even close.

    signature image
  • tDanB said... (original post)

    Serious question for folks. And before I ask, please know I think the actions of Jerry Sandusky are as despicable as they come, on a par with say, the feral animals of OWS. But compare his actions to those of Brian Kelly, the head football coach of Notre Dame. By now we all know the story of how he ordered is student manager to climb up the cherry-picker to film practice, on a day when the wind was blowing and producing gales beyond reasonable safety. Documented stories abound on the interwebs and MSM on the abhorrent lack of judgment and responsibility (en loco parentis anyone?) of this decision. Suffice to say that involuntary manslaughter was at play at the time. It is one thing for a run of the mill marxist-infected state university to sweep such an occurance under the rug. It would be a whole 'nother deal for a school purported to subscribe to catholic teaching to do so. However, the particular institution involved is Notre Dame, who is in the midst of a process to totally divorce themselves from church doctrine. (as several Popes roll over in their grave, not to mention Knute Rockne and George Gipp, rip),

    Anyway, not only should Brian Kelly not be coaching a college football team, he should not be a free man. He should have been tried and convicted of at least involuntary manslaughter for his actions that day that his student manager died.

    Which brings me to my question. If you had to pick, who is more immoral, Sandusky or Kelly? Moreover, if people currently employed at Penn St pay a price for the actions of Sandusky, what about those involved at Notre Dame? Do they deserve a pass that PSU doesn't? Does child sex abuse trump murder/manslaughter of any degree? What say you brainwashed marxists??

    wow

  • Big M said... (original post)

    This already has gone way beyond one assistant coach. There is already a clear pattern of high ranking officials basically engaging in a coverup of child rape.

    Agreed. At the very least, Curley and Paterno have to go. I don't care that JoePa is a legend. He was warned and didn't do enough. Everyone that turned a somewhat blind eye needs to go.

  • More from a Pittsburgh area paper. Note that it is somewhat unusual for the PA Attorney General to get involved in something that the District Attorney should be doing. Maybe they thought the local folks would cover up.

    Sandusky charged with 40 counts related to child sex abuse
    By Tom Fontaine, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
    Saturday, November 5, 2011
    Last updated: 5:58 pm

    The Pennsylvania Attorney General's office charged former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky with 40 counts related to the sexual abuse of children and also charged two top university administrators for failing to report suspected crimes.

    "This is a case about a sexual predator who used his position within the university and community to repeatedly prey on young boys," said Attorney General Linda Kelly.

    "It is also a case about high-ranking university officials who allegedly failed to report the sexual assault of a young boy after the information was brought to their attention, and later made false statements to a grand jury that was investigating a series of assaults on young boys."

    A former Penn State graduate assistant coach testified that he saw Sandusky having sex with what appeared to be a 10-year-old boy in the locker-room showers of Penn State's Lasch Football Building one night in March 2002, Kelly said. Sandusky was retired and held an emeritus position at the time, providing him with his own office and unrestricted access to all football and recreational facilities.

    A similar incident had been investigated by university police and Child Protective Services four years earlier, though no criminal charges were filed.

    As for the 2002 incident, the graduate assistant reported it the next morning to Penn State head coach Joe Paterno, who informed Curley the following day.

    "Despite a powerful eyewitness statement about the sexual assault of a child, this incident was not reported to any law enforcement or child protective agency, as required by Pennsylvania law," Kelly said.

    Read more: Sandusky charged with 40 counts related to child sex abuse - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_765791.html#ixzz1ctEm5Uf3

    Unknown Titlke

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_765791.html

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_765791.html
  • Dr Leo Spaceman said... (original post)

    Kelly was negligent but he didnt know the outcome of the action.

    Sandusky knew exactly where he was sticking his pecker.

    Not even close.

    Death vs. not death? Involuntary manslaughter vs. rape? Not even close? I guess I'd rather have my 10-year old kid be raped than inadvertently killed on an oversight. But that's just me.

    This post was edited by tDanB 3 years ago

  • Dr Leo Spaceman

    sprtnbrn said... (original post)

    Agreed. At the very least, Curley and Paterno have to go. I don't care that JoePa is a legend. He was warned and didn't do enough. Everyone that turned a somewhat blind eye needs to go.

    They will do everything they can to maintain jp's image.

    But the other fucks are on their own

    signature image
  • tDanB said... (original post)

    Serious question for folks. And before I ask, please know I think the actions of Jerry Sandusky are as despicable as they come, on a par with say, the feral animals of OWS. But compare his actions to those of Brian Kelly, the head football coach of Notre Dame. By now we all know the story of how he ordered is student manager to climb up the cherry-picker to film practice, on a day when the wind was blowing and producing gales beyond reasonable safety. Documented stories abound on the interwebs and MSM on the abhorrent lack of judgment and responsibility (en loco parentis anyone?) of this decision. Suffice to say that involuntary manslaughter was at play at the time. It is one thing for a run of the mill marxist-infected state university to sweep such an occurance under the rug. It would be a whole 'nother deal for a school purported to subscribe to catholic teaching to do so. However, the particular institution involved is Notre Dame, who is in the midst of a process to totally divorce themselves from church doctrine. (as several Popes roll over in their grave, not to mention Knute Rockne and George Gipp, rip),

    Anyway, not only should Brian Kelly not be coaching a college football team, he should not be a free man. He should have been tried and convicted of at least involuntary manslaughter for his actions that day that his student manager died.

    Which brings me to my question. If you had to pick, who is more immoral, Sandusky or Kelly? Moreover, if people currently employed at Penn St pay a price for the actions of Sandusky, what about those involved at Notre Dame? Do they deserve a pass that PSU doesn't? Does child sex abuse trump murder/manslaughter of any degree? What say you the brainwashed marxists of our venerablr state-sponsored and union endorsed alma mater?? (MSU, we love thy shadows and all that shit.)

    What Brian Kelly did was negligent and borderline criminal. I remember this board going after ND pretty hard. To even compare the two though is insane. This would've been the equivalent of seeing the results of the cherry picker and sending 20 more camera men up there in similar circumstances. PSU knew this scumbag had a problem and covered it up.

  • Raytooth Morgan

    Dr Leo Spaceman said... (original post)

    Kelly was negligent but he didnt know the outcome of the action.

    Sandusky knew exactly where he was sticking his pecker.

    Not even close.

    Agreed. Kelly was negligent on one occasion. Sandusky was willfully raping children more times than any of us will ever really want to know. One if much worse than the other.

    Posting member of tRCMB since 1997. It is ALWAYS a great day to be a Spartan!!!!

  • Imisspancheros said... (original post)

    Just also read the whole thing, this is by far the worst scandal to hit a university ever. All these people deserve to be jailed, not just fired. When is it OK for an old man to shower with a young boy after hours in a school facility? All they told him was that he couldn't take anymore boys on campus THAT OBVIOUSLY MEANS YOU SEE ITS WILDLY INAPPROPRIATE! What the fuck is the matter with these people, including Joe Pa. Why is it ok for this old peice of shit to have all these relationships with young boys, you can't tell me that no one picked up on it. I mean, what in the fuck? I am sick to my stomach, feel terrible for the kids and for anyone that goes to penn state and generally pissed off that anything like this is associated with a school from the big ten conference. Unbelievable really...

    PM Mel or talk to a social worker or a member of law enforcement. Let them tell you stories about trusted people who turn out to be serial child molesters.

    Guys like Sandusky hide in plain sight. They are masters of gaining people's confidence and using their positions to intimidate victims. Paterno had know the guy since 1963 or earlier since JoePa was a PSU assistant since 1955 and you figure Sandusky was recruited to play football at PSU in the fall of 1962 at the latest.

    Paterno should have gone to the PSU Campus Police or the county sheriff with the grad asst. before he informed the AD of the allegations. He didn't. Probably because he had been getting conned by Sandusky for years just like Sandusky conned others in the community.

  • Dr Leo Spaceman

    tDanB said... (original post)

    Death vs. not death? Involuntary manslaughter vs. rape? Not even close? I guess I'd rather have my 10-year old kid be raped than inadvertently killed on an oversight. But that's just me.

    Such a flawed argument.

    Sandusky created a shelter for boys, built their trust then raped them.

    Kelly did not have it out for this kid and sent him up on a lift thinking "oh boy here is my chance to kill him"

    Sandusky repeatedly took boys in the shower and raped them.

    And what kind ofnsick fuck would wantnto choose one over the other for their kid? This is why they wont make me a mod. You would be toast.

    signature image
  • Philly Spartan said... (original post)

    Agreed. Kelly was negligent on one occasion. Sandusky was willfully raping children more times than any of us will ever really want to know. One if much worse than the other.

    to the point that we give Kelly a pass? I am not supporting Sandusky here at all. I find it morally inconsistent if PSU officials face criminal charges on the one hand, and the ND crowd gets a pass on the other. They both deserve prosecution.

  • Raytooth Morgan

    tDanB said... (original post)

    Death vs. not death? Involuntary manslaughter vs. rape? Not even close? I guess I'd rather have my 10-year old kid be raped than inadvertently killed on an oversight. But that's just me.

    One time of negligence is much different than many times over of doing what Sandusky did not to mention the apparent covering up done for him.

    I'm not sure I would want my kid to live with that on their conscience their entire life. Its really a negative life changer.

    Posting member of tRCMB since 1997. It is ALWAYS a great day to be a Spartan!!!!

  • Dr Leo Spaceman

    tDanB said... (original post)

    to the point that we give Kelly a pass? I am not supporting Sandusky here at all. I find it morally inconsistent if PSU officials face criminal charges on the one hand, and the ND crowd gets a pass on the other. They both deserve prosecution.

    Go somewhere else to have this argument, this isnt even remotely similar or comparable.

    signature image
  • tDanB said... (original post)

    Serious question for folks. And before I ask, please know I think the actions of Jerry Sandusky are as despicable as they come, on a par with say, the feral animals of OWS. But compare his actions to those of Brian Kelly, the head football coach of Notre Dame. By now we all know the story of how he ordered is student manager to climb up the cherry-picker to film practice, on a day when the wind was blowing and producing gales beyond reasonable safety. Documented stories abound on the interwebs and MSM on the abhorrent lack of judgment and responsibility (en loco parentis anyone?) of this decision. Suffice to say that involuntary manslaughter was at play at the time. It is one thing for a run of the mill marxist-infected state university to sweep such an occurance under the rug. It would be a whole 'nother deal for a school purported to subscribe to catholic teaching to do so. However, the particular institution involved is Notre Dame, who is in the midst of a process to totally divorce themselves from church doctrine. (as several Popes roll over in their grave, not to mention Knute Rockne and George Gipp, rip),

    Anyway, not only should Brian Kelly not be coaching a college football team, he should not be a free man. He should have been tried and convicted of at least involuntary manslaughter for his actions that day that his student manager died.

    Which brings me to my question. If you had to pick, who is more immoral, Sandusky or Kelly? Moreover, if people currently employed at Penn St pay a price for the actions of Sandusky, what about those involved at Notre Dame? Do they deserve a pass that PSU doesn't? Does child sex abuse trump murder/manslaughter of any degree? What say you the brainwashed marxists of our venerablr state-sponsored and union endorsed alma mater?? (MSU, we love thy shadows and all that shit.)

    nuts

  • Raytooth Morgan

    tDanB said... (original post)

    to the point that we give Kelly a pass? I am not supporting Sandusky here at all. I find it morally inconsistent if PSU officials face criminal charges on the one hand, and the ND crowd gets a pass on the other. They both deserve prosecution.

    I personally feel Kelly should have been fired and charged with involuntary manslaughter. I'm not giving Kelly a free pass at all. I just think the two situations are very different with one FAR worse than the other.

    Posting member of tRCMB since 1997. It is ALWAYS a great day to be a Spartan!!!!

  • Dr Leo Spaceman

    Philly Spartan said... (original post)

    One time of negligence is much different than many times over of doing what Sandusky did not to mention the apparent covering up done for him.

    I'm not sure I would want my kid to live with that on their conscience their entire life. Its really a negative life changer.

    The part that stuck out to me is the sinking feeling all the workers, parents, teachers, etc. who referred kids to second mile. You would have to live with knowing you sent kids who had already been given a shitty hand into the lair of a child rapist.

    Even not knowing any better, i would have a very difficult time living with that knowledge after the fact.

    This post was edited by Dr Leo Spaceman 3 years ago

    signature image
  • tDanB said... (original post)

    to the point that we give Kelly a pass? I am not supporting Sandusky here at all. I find it morally inconsistent if PSU officials face criminal charges on the one hand, and the ND crowd gets a pass on the other. They both deserve prosecution.

    It's apples and oranges though. Do I think BK should've been tried for negligence? Absolutely. Again PSU had reason to believe Sandusky was doing something and barely made a token effort to stop him.

  • sprtnbrn said... (original post)

    What Brian Kelly did was negligent and borderline criminal. I remember this board going after ND pretty hard. To even compare the two though is insane. This would've been the equivalent of seeing the results of the cherry picker and sending 20 more camera men up there in similar circumstances. PSU knew this scumbag had a problem and covered it up.

    I agree with this. Brian Kelly should have but did not know the guy was going to die. PSU was told what was happening and covered it up. They are both wrong but it would be like Brian Kelly covering it up and then sending more kids up in the those conditions.

    Plus as much as ND and Kelly where negligent the kid could have said no. He may have gotten fired but he could have said eff off I am not going up there. Where these are very young boys, they are not adults, they lack the ability to make those decisions and even stop a rape from a grown man.

    signature image

    Molon Labe

  • Mel

    Dr Leo Spaceman said... (original post)

    The part that stuck out to me is the sinking feeling all the workers, parents, teachers, etc. who referred kids to second mile. You would have to live with knowing you sent kids who had already been given a shitty hand into the lair of a child rapist.

    Even not knowing any better, i would have a very difficult time living with that knowledge after the fact.

    Yep. This point pretty much sickens me.

  • tDanB said... (original post)

    Serious question for folks. And before I ask, please know I think the actions of Jerry Sandusky are as despicable as they come, on a par with say, the feral animals of OWS. But compare his actions to those of Brian Kelly, the head football coach of Notre Dame. By now we all know the story of how he ordered is student manager to climb up the cherry-picker to film practice, on a day when the wind was blowing and producing gales beyond reasonable safety. Documented stories abound on the interwebs and MSM on the abhorrent lack of judgment and responsibility (en loco parentis anyone?) of this decision. Suffice to say that involuntary manslaughter was at play at the time. It is one thing for a run of the mill marxist-infected state university to sweep such an occurance under the rug. It would be a whole 'nother deal for a school purported to subscribe to catholic teaching to do so. However, the particular institution involved is Notre Dame, who is in the midst of a process to totally divorce themselves from church doctrine. (as several Popes roll over in their grave, not to mention Knute Rockne and George Gipp, rip),

    Anyway, not only should Brian Kelly not be coaching a college football team, he should not be a free man. He should have been tried and convicted of at least involuntary manslaughter for his actions that day that his student manager died.

    Which brings me to my question. If you had to pick, who is more immoral, Sandusky or Kelly? Moreover, if people currently employed at Penn St pay a price for the actions of Sandusky, what about those involved at Notre Dame? Do they deserve a pass that PSU doesn't? Does child sex abuse trump murder/manslaughter of any degree? What say you the brainwashed marxists of our venerablr state-sponsored and union endorsed alma mater?? (MSU, we love thy shadows and all that shit.)

    Really?

    signature image
  • Victory for MSU

    Dr Leo Spaceman said... (original post)

    The part that stuck out to me is the sinking feeling all the workers, parents, teachers, etc. who referred kids to second mile. You would have to live with knowing you sent kids who had already been given a shitty hand into the lair of a child rapist.

    Even not knowing any better, i would have a very difficult time living with that knowledge after the fact.

    It amazes me how this hasn't been brought to light sooner.

    He was having kids SLEEP OVER AT HIS HOUSE OVER NIGHT on multiple occasions! How does no one get wind of this? This should never ever ever ever ever ever ever happen!

    signature image

    Players play, tough players win.

  • Foot B Dude2001

    Here's the full grand jury finding of facts if anyone's interested. It's disgusting. SIAP.

    Unknown Titlke

    http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

    http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

    ...beyond a stretch of Maryland pines there's a river without a name.