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And sweep scum, wiscy, osu, IU and have Player of the year and coach of the year!
Lucky for OP, I don't like using my downvotes so early in the day
Haha God damn it, I was going for this meme!
That is your opinion. Mine will always be he does not care about the BTT. I look at the rotation he uses in some of those games and the minutes he plays certain guys and to me it becomes obvious..
Last year against OSU in the BTT Tourney Final, 8 guys played.
2011 BTT we lose to PSU on Saturday 61-48 - ten guys played 5 minutes or more
2010 BTT we lose to Minny on Friday 72-67 - eleven guys played and ten played 5 minutes or more. Against OSU at home in a game we lost, he played 7 guys 5 minutes or more.
2009 BTT we lose to OSU on Saturday 82-70 - played thirteen guys, and ten played 5 minutes or more.
Do I need to continue? If I did you would see more of the same. I look at the rotations he uses in these games and while sure, he would like to win....to me it is apparent that he is not treating this like a NCAA tourney game or a critical game against a rival.
AND in my opinion I am glad he does it....why should you run your guys through a gauntlet of 3-4 games in a 3-4 day span just to win a tournament that normally has minimal impact on your seeding. Plus, you have your guys feeling good about themselves. Much better off to accomplish what you need in the tourney, if anything, and then bow out and go into the tourney off a loss. You have your team playing a little angrier off the loss and focusing more.
Izzo is a competitor, but he is a smart competitor who knows what matters.
Also, my opinion is in no way meant to justify failures...to me its not a failure. In the grand scheme of things, the Big Ten tourney means next to nothing. If I could trade a Big Ten Tourney championship for a first game Big Ten Tourney loss by 50 points for two more points in a NCAA Tourney game that would make the difference in going to the next round, I would in a heartbeat.
Last thing I'll go on and on about...doesn't it make sense to tank the tourney? Why play 3 games to play Sunday afternoon in what will be a physical game and possibly a game that mean so much more just four days later in the NCAA tourney. Are the recent articles stupid saying that one nice thing about our current schedule is a little nicer this year because we have our tough game at Wisconsin spaced out almost 5 days with our game with Indiana. Do you think it would make no difference if we played last night and had to turn around and face Indiana on Sunday?
These are all great points. If we beat tOSU in our final game and clinch the outright B1G title last year, I think we would have mysteriously lost in the 2nd round of the B1G tournament.
Where's the win the Natty option?
I don't think those box scores show much of a correlation at all. In MY opinion, rotations are based on the matchups of the game. The rotation against OSU in the BTT tourney final (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=320710127) looks like the same rotation as when they played OSU the week before in the regular season for a chance to win (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=320640127). Below is the minutes each player played in each of these games respectively.
Name: Reg. Season, BTT
D. Green: 36,36
A. Payne: 18,19
A. Thornton: 30,29
K. Appling: 36,35
B. Dawsen: 7,DNP (ACL)
B. Wood: 33,33
D. Nix: 21,21
Plus, BJ got injured in that final OSU game at home so we lost an extra person in the rotation anyway for the BTT tourney.
I'm not even going to touch that Minnesota game, it was in Overtime, how can compare minutes played when you're playing an extra 5?
And the OSU comparison in 2009, much of the same thing. If anything his guys played MORE then the regular season game.
Name: Reg. Season, BTT
Do I need to continue?
I didn't even realize we had a say in this.
I learn something new every day on this board.
You confused me...maybe I'm dumb. My point is he is playing the starters less minutes in the Big Ten Tourney and extending the bench and giving guys more minutes. In a game you really care about winning like this, that means that much to you, I think you would shorten your bench and try to play your best players more. I was using last year's game as an example of how he actually shortened his bench and used only 8 players. Similar to how he would in the regular season against Ohio State, because he is trying to win.
I take a look at the games in prior years and he normally lengthens the rotation in the Big Ten Tourney. In affect, giving his team less of a chance to win.
You are right, 2009 may not be the best example. We had good depth that year. Please take a look at 2008 and before. I think you'll see more of what I am talking about than what you are trying to prove.
Well done. It's clear to any objective observer that Izzo doesn't prioritize the BTT in most seasons. This isn't some kind of excuse, it's a fact, as your stats back up. And I'm not some turd who thinks the only times he's tried are the years he's won. I think on occasion he has prioritized it when there is either something tangible to gain (#1 seed, on the bubble, etc.) or he determines his team needs a psychological boost going into the tournament (FWIW I think last year fell into both categories). Otherwise, I think he honestly sees it as a distraction from his meticulous year long team building plan that culminates in the NCAAs.
Here's a less data-driven way to look at it: Very few people on this board have been in a Tom Izzo pregame team meeting, an in-game huddle or a halftime. But does anyone actually believe the intensity of those conversations are the same for a quarterfinal game against Penn State in the BTT as they are for a tournament game against Kansas or Kentucky or Duke? And if you agree they are likely very different in tone, energy and message, doesn't that alone contradict the theory that he really puts 110% into every single game, including the BTT?
The BTT doesn't really matter, except for seedings. It isn't a meaningful championship in any way shape or form.
You must have missed the moving ceremony where the team received their BTT rings and talked about how the NCAA tournament didn't really matter any more because they had won three games over a weekend.
While I agree with you about Izzo and the BT tournament I do think there have been some years that he absolutely NEEDED to win it for his soul. In 2000 he won it but I don't think he cared. Just too much talent on that team not to lose. We all know there have been years when he's used it to send a message to his team. He'll take a loss to get peoples minds right. However, last year I believe he wanted it badly. Remember the championship banner ceremony after the OSU game? I think he hated the fact he shared the title with two other teams. I believe he just wanted it to help with the disappointment of backing into the season championship last year. Who knows.
Are you guys kidding me with this shit? You make it seem like TI just picks and chooses when he wants to win the BTT. Get the fuck out of here. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. There's no conspiracy here.
He wants to win every game he plays. However, you're saying he's never done anything with line up in the BTT to send a message to anyone before the NCAA's?
Not only that, but the way he is putting it it would imply that Izzo cares about every game the same amount. I would hope he puts in more effort and pulls out all the stops in a NCAA Tourney game. Which is what he does based on the cram sessions we have all read about. I think Big Ten Tourney games in most seasons are a distant third behind NCAA Tourney Games and Big Ten Regular Season Games.
Stop making excuses. Where's your proof he doesn't care about tBTT?
I vote for Option 6: Win out, Win the BTT, Win the National Championship, Appling gets the Wooden Award, Izzo gets Coach of the Year, Nix goes in the lottery, and Jabari Parker switches his commitment to MSU.
What excuses? He doesn't care as much about the Big Ten Tourney. My proof is common sense. Would you rather win the Big Ten Tourney or go to the Final Four? The only time he ever does care is if we are on the bubble or a situation like last year where there was a three way tie and it meant something more than it normally would with a one seed. I am confident that if we were pretty well locked into a 2 seed or 3 seed he would not care as much.
I would also say use the eye test...when we go down in this tourney it is often by double digits and when you watch the game you can tell the team doesn't have it that game.
Out of curiosity, are you upset by this notion because Izzo is an amazing coach and it world make you sick that this would happen? I think he is the best coach in college basketball and I respect him more for doing this. It helps that there are some stats that back up conference tourney champions not meeting their seed expectations. UConn was a notable exception in recent years for running the Big East Tourney gauntlet and doing well in the tourney. Let me see if I can find an article about that.
I don't want to get in a fight about this. Izzo is a winner and knows what he's doing. However, I noticed you didn't answer my question about messing with line ups and rotations in that tournament. Sitting players etc. You really haven't noticed that? Perhaps he's doing it because he believes it gives us a better chance. But I think he's doing it to set minds right for the NCAA.
I noticed when he sat Durrell and Chris Allen a few years back in tBTT. We lost to Minny that year but something tells me they deserved it. As the game was getting out of reach, Izzo went to the end of the bench and got in Allen's face. Spent like 2 minutes with his back to the action on the floor.
He was pissed and the message was loud and clear.
I recall doing ok in the NCAA after that.
Yep. Allen played well in the NCAA's and Summers carried us to the title game. In the BTT loss to Minny, Allen didn't dress. Summers played 24 minutes and shot 1 for 6. Down the stretch, Durrell sat in favor of Keebler. ( who played 20 minutes)
Message sent and recieved. Here's my point. A final four team that played in the NC game couldn't win the BTT? Izzo had bigger fish to fry that year, and though he was pissed and wanted to win the BTT, he was looking at Moby Dick the next week down the road.
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