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His other 4 games were Minnesota, Iowa, NW (Hail Mary to beat them) and SC (game they lost).
Is it impressive to look impressive against most of those squads?
I know we like to predict that um will suck every year but I think Gardner will be good.
Kovacs, Demens and Roh were very good, but not Jake Ryan good. Kovacs will be tough to replace, although he was limited physically/athetically, so there is definite potential to replace or even upgrade at his position. Demens and Roh's production can be replaced realistically as well-Clark (like you mentioned), along with Desmond Morgan, Ojemudia and maybe early enrollee Taco Charlton I predict will have a greater impact than Roh and Demens. There is a reason Kovacs, Demens and Roh are not on NFL radars. Also, I never said I was banking on Countess not missing a beat. However, in September he will be a full year removed from his injury. It is not unrealistic to expect him to be the #1 corner, and a very good one.
RB is up in the air, I agree, but I would also argue that it is less up in the air than the MSU RB situation. As for Gardner, against one of the best defenses in the country, I was very happy with his 3 TDs. Would you take Maxwell over Gardner? Honest question. I would not.
Question for you: Losing Adams and Gholston on D, why are you confident that this year's defense will be even better? I have a ton of respect for Bullough, he is a stud, and Dennard is great. Who are the other playmakers?
You saw 8-5 with 2 last second wins for UM last year. I saw 8-5 against the toughest schedule in the country with only one embarassing loss, to the national champs, and a last second loss to a top 10 SEC team in the bowl game. It all depends on your point of view.
MSU did not have all losses in their close games last year, they had some close wins in there as well. It is natural for fans to dismiss close wins and play the "what if" game for close losses, I understand that.
MSU has had so much depth the past couple years on defense. Look at guys like Shilque Calhoun, Denicos Allen. Those guys will be studs this year. That's why most of us think this years defense will be even better.
Don't let your hate blind you, please.
He looked very good in those games, and his rating in his worst game (@OSU), was 20 points higher than what Maxwell did against OSU at home. It was not Garder's fault they lost the bowl game, that was on the defense (and the secondary in particular). In the 5 games Gardner started, he accounted for 18 total touchdowns.
Fair enough. I think you are probably right to expect that. I was legitimately curious. MSU has had the best defense in the league the last few years.
Those teams that he played against were still not very good. That's almost the same thing as Denard beating up on shitty teams and Walvies proclaiming him to win the Heisman.
Oh come on, it is not very close to that. Denard pasted non-conference teams for the most part, and Notre Dame. I'm not saying Iowa, NW and Minny were world-beaters, but they were not cupcakes like you would find on a Wisconsin non-conference schedule. Especially Northwestern and Iowa.
Iowa went 4-8 last year....
Yes they did. Excellent observation.
Fine, Iowa was epically awful last year. How the hell did they ever win a road game in conference? Over a bowl team no less?
This post was edited by CoachCarr97 12 months ago
Sure, MSU lost to iowa, which was pathetic, but you really shouldn't be happy about having decent games against low tier Big Ten teams.
That was a pathetic loss last year. I expected you to bring up MSU losing to Iowa in that game. Typical Michigan fan. Deflect the topic to MSU when it doesn't favor your team.
In a thread about MSU being a contender or pretender, there are 38 replies so far. Of those 38 replies, 19 are about MSU and 19 are about um football.
Alright, agree to disagree on Gardner. I believe he will have a much better season than Maxwell. I guess we will have to see what happens.
I did not deflect your point, BTW. I used some evidence in my favor which pointed to Iowa not being as bad as you made it out to be. Coincidentally, it involved MSU. I did not even use the name MSU in my response because I was trying to be polite.
Typical MSU fan, too blinded by hatred of UM to acknowledge the possiblity UM may be better than he would like for them to be.
Yes, blinded by the fact Gardner did not beat any good teams other than NW. Quit being a homer.
He also played well enough to beat South Carolina. Maybe he should have been out there playing in the secondary. That is about the only other way he could have helped win that game.
The question remains: Would you rather have Maxwell or Gardner? Be honest.
Gardner. I personally don't think Maxwell should be starting. Although I don't think Gardner would be much of a fit in MSU's offense.
Nίκη για MSU
He played fairly well vs South Carolina.
You don't think that had anything to do with the defense being keyed on Robinson? I do.
1) No but lets be honest that is not saying much at all.
2) Adams wasnt even our best corner last year and Gholston was incredibly inconsistent. Allen, Rush, Lewis are some of the other big returning names. Watch out for Shilique Calhoun and Lawrence Thomas to make a splash on the D Line.
Perhaps the biggest thing is the depth we have on defense without a huge drop off.
CoachCarr97...you seem to be attempting to rise above the standard Walverine presence on this board and engage in rational discussion - kudos to you.
Regarding MSU's D...in addition to proven studs like Bullough/Dennard/D. Allen/I. Lewis (I beleive Lews is the #1 rated safety on the 2014 draft board)...we have a deep veteran group at DL - though no "household names". Probably no standouts but a 7-8 man rotation that will be solid. With our D as long as the D Line can keep the LBs clean that usually is more than enough to force a 3 and out (we do a lot of pass rushing with LB blitzes as I'm sure any UM fan has noticed the past few years).
In addition to Dennard and Lewis, we return our starting safety and nickle back (Williamson and Drummond), both of whom were "plus" players last year that I expect to contend for the all-B1G team. Following that, several good looking young guys (elite recruits like D. Cox and T. Waynes who held his own vs. TCU in bowl game). This D is going to be scary good....and I didn't even mention Taiwan Jones who took a Senior Captain's starting spot last year at OLB and has an NFL body/athleticism.
The question is obviously the O...it's becoming a cliche as you hear it so much but if we even grow to having the #6-7 best O in the B1G we could win the conference.
I don't follow UM too closely but it seems like they lose a lot and have overall more Q's than MSU - albeit MSU's Q's are "bigger" (QB, TE, RB). Given the importance MD places on the UM game, the fact that most of us (and I'm sure the team) feels like we were the better team last year and lost a flukey game to UM, and it being in EL I'm fairly confident in beating UM this year.
I'd rather not.
Would you have rather had Maxwell's or Gardner's OLine?
Marriage is like flying with kids, if the flight had 500 connections, never ended, Ted Striker were your pilot and you ate the fish.
Fair point. Maybe it did. Should be interesting to see how it turns out this year.
Shifting back to the thread topic, I see MSU being a major contender this year as long as the OL steps up. I also think any of 4 teams could win the division-MSU, UM, Nebraska or Northwestern. And OSU is the favorite in the other division obviously, but they are not the world-beaters a lot of people are making them out to be.
I agree with your point on the four teams.
"Fringe Contender" is the correct answer.
We need to see the O, how the OL shuffles out and stays healthy, obviously the RB situation, and if the Place kicking can be close to what Conroy did.
The D could also be damn good and still give up 4-7 more PPG simply through a handful of busts / fall downs / trickeration plays.
As we should learn from last year, anything is possible. Please stop acting, no matter how soft the sched looks, that a team than went 2-5 at home last year and lost its only 2 functional weapons is a juggernaut.
This post was edited by Pylon St8ofmind 12 months ago
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