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Hayden Fry, Bobby Bowden
See a pattern here? These men didn't always have stellar records early on, but they built programs that were able to stand the test of time - often times at places that didn't have the history (albeit pretty ancient at this point) that MSU has. Outside of Ferentz, these guys are all in the College Football Hall of Fame .
Heck, Paterno had losing records in 4 of 5 years in the early 2000s, going 5-7, 5-6, 9-4, 3-9, 4-7 from 2000-2004.
The 2004 season was particularly frustrating for Penn State fans. The defense was outstanding; didn't give up more than 21 points to any opponent. The offense, however, was inept, struggled to run the ball and have any semblance of a passing game.
So what happened?
In 2005 PSU started a trio of new WRs, one walk-on, one 3-star and one 5-star (Jordan Norwood, Deon Butler, Derrick Williams) respectively. Their new O averaged 35 PPG, the D kept doing what they were doing and PSU went 11-1, with a close L to Iowa keeping them from playing for the NC.
Point was, PSU wasn't that far away, and before you point to that 5-star, he broke his leg 6 games or so into the season, and the show still rolled on.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
Jealous of nds record so the blowers go on the attack. Tell the guy to fuck off when a question is raised about the cause and effect of landing a high ranked recruiting class. Typical head in the sand, excuse making, enablers. Next season won't be any better. We know the lineman coming in are not good. Msu football is what it is.
Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.
Based on the last two recruiting classes in the 30s do you think msu is on the verge next year and the year after to actually compete for the legends division?
Stick to your guns. Don't let the sunshiners bully you into submitting to their excuses for poor results. Most msu grads think like you do not like these sexless dorks.
Next year? Absolutely. The Spartans have enough returning talent to compete with both Nebraska and Michigan. The schedule lightens up and the hardest game will be at UNL.
The following year? Who knows. MSU, UM (assuming Gardner plays QB next year) and UNL will all be starting first year starting QB's and it is too far out and too many things can happen.
Based off of year to year improvement among returning starters and a schedule that's getting easier, I'd set the bar at 9 Ws or bust next season.
In other words, yes.
I don't see Nebraska getting leaps and bounds better than they already are, and UM is about to go through an offensive shift. UM is at home, NEB is on the road. Iowa isn't very good, Minny should be o.k. but the game's at home and Northwestern will be its usual 6-8 W-self.
With crappy Purdue and IL replacing tOSU and Wisky, there's a real opportunity in '13 and '14. Quite frankly, I thought there was an opportunity in to really string together a dominant stretch of 4-5 great seasons because of how weak the Big 10 schedule is in '13 and '14.
Obviously that didn't happen in '12, but regardless of what happened this year, the schedule goes from sandpaper to Charmin next year. @ND and @Neb will be tough, but other than that . . . MSU could very well be favored in every single game.
Gholston would start at ND and Rashad-White probably would too. On offense, I guarantee that Burbridge or Lippett would start. They are playing Theo Riddick at WR who literally wouldn't even have a scholarship at MSU. Wood and Bell would rotate at back, call them 1A and 1B.
Both offenses are complete shit, but MSU has just as much skill position talent as ND which isn't much.
With regards to the original question, recruiting matters but developing players and spotting talent matters more. Also you can't tell me that ND is any better than MSU was last year or 2010. If they get smoked by USC and Bama in a BCS game they'll be 11-2 and got lucky to catch both Michigan and Michigan State in a down year.
Paterno, Alvarez, Carr (8-4 not .500, but MSU isn't done yet), Mack Brown (two different schools), Bill Snyder, Saban (not year 6, but year 3 at LSU was 8-5), Bob Stoops (8-4 in y7, 8-5 in y11), Bo Schembechler (.500 in y16, next year won the Fiesta Bowl), Darrell Royal, Knute Rockne, Lou Holtz, Woody Hayes, etc.
It would actually be easier to list those coaches that didn't go to a major bowl after a .500/near .500 season than those that have. Did you not put any thought into your question at all?
Who is going to replace white and gholston if he bolts to the nfl?
It's amazing that he could bring success to such a forlorn football outpost.
This post was edited by WBill19542 20 months ago
Welp... I'm now convinced. Not enough stars. Better scrap the fuckin program.
I believe this may be the whiniest/most fragile fan base in the country.
There's a toilet in the kitchen!
This is the correct response.
Oh and btw, historically ND is probably the last school you want to cite as proving Star Ratings guarantee success on the field.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by WBill19542 20 months ago
Considering that neither have really lit the world on fire this year, is that really a major problem? DT is an issue with quality depth, but I'm not terribly concerned about DE.
What is it, 14 sacks this year compared to 45 last ?
Don't forget Duffy. He had his share of poor seasons. 3-5-1 in 58 after going 24-4 the previous 3 seasons. 4-5 in 64 before going 19-1-1 the next two seasons. I know that's before his "last 30 years" qualification, but if anyone has read Duffy's autobiography, he talks about the shit he would take from fans during poor seasons, and its not unlike what a handful of of posters are saying now.
From the outside looking in it seems like Coach D has to look at one area in particular, OL. Fair to say that consistently his staff either does not identify or does not develop talent that fits the system he supposedly wants to run. At this point how is it we have an OL that can not run block? You can't find another position group that you could say about. Even where stocked with 3 stars they are effective at what they are being asked to do.
That and as noted elsewhere, have a stud QB in the wings.
Absolutely not. Dantonio is better for the program long term. Kelly would have split the second he could for bigger things.
you are a moron
"Put your mother in a straight-jacket you punk ass white boy." ~ Mike Tyson
I told Vaspartan is fuck off because he is a jackass.
Think that having 3-5 of them (including TE) injured at various points of the year has somewhat of an impact on the run game this year? They did good against Neb. Oh yeah, that just happened to be the only time since fall camp that all 5 starters for a given game practiced together the whole week leading up to it.
It's part of the game, backups need to be better, whatever you want to say, that's all true. I'm just saying that it has had a big impact on the OL's consistency this year.
He's not blowing Kelly you half-witted, drooling morons. He's asking a question. It's unfortunate he forgot that its sacreligious to suggest Dantonio isn't the second coming of Jesus Christ. Pathetic.
Agree there were several contributing circumstances that you noted this year. But isn't trying to figure out why the OL is under performing an annual discussion here? Take a step back, there is a long term trend here, a weak link in the whole Identify (and get) players that fit, redshirt, develop players process.
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