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As someone who was there for the Perles era, he basically tanked the program after reaching the Rose Bowl. He got lazy in recruiting and coaching and was more concerned with becoming AD and flirting with the NFL. We were not very stable. Absolutely no one said that Perles wasn't a big time hire at the time, but there's no way that anyone can say that we were on firm footing with him.
Simple, Dantonio wants to be here. Perles was constantly looking for the BBD and used that to leverage himself into the AD role. Recruiting suffered because of his dalliances with the pros, and he was not able to sustain success. He had two good/decent years in 10, and the rest were mediocre to subpar. He was a big time hire because he talked the talk, but in the end failed to follow through and wound up on probation. Dantonio actually walks the walk, does not have his eyes on the want-ads, and for the first time since Daugherty is looking to build a program, not just a flash in the pan that he can use to get a better job.
This post was edited by Cement23588 20 months ago
That was just as risky of a move since Perles had never been a head coach in college. He also demonstrated a bit of poor ethics by reneging on a contract with the Philadelphia Stars of the USFL. Re: the program in '89; have you done any research at all? Or is this just a way to get others to throw facts in your face, (because you prefer facials) and act like a kid trying to spin your way out of a losing debate. Lets just take records: Perles after 6 years, 38-29-3; Dantonio , 47-27. Next time do some research prior to posting.
And we won't even get into the annual shopping for other jobs, coaching or AD crap...........but hey , he was a much more 'big time' hire according to Binford.
So many factors. It ain't that easy, but I doubt there is much more a correlation between recruiting stars and performance than how successful a kid would be because he's in the magnet program at middle school.
How many years would Bobby Williams have postponed his firing if Smoker had been clean? How would the tides have shifted if John L got the Rich Rod gift? Would Dantonio have gone 4-0 against Lloyd Carr?
You have to admit there's more evidence that recruiting ratings are halfassed BS
Oh I don't know. On field results maybe?
Binford getting roughed up here. I'm guessing he was a baby when George was hired.
Yea and seeing how everyone can't believe how bad Roushar's offense has performed this year averaging 19 points a game.
George's BEST team averaged 21.
Sign ohio state last year. Sign texas the past few years
Nope; they're off the schedule for awhile starting in '14
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
Youre already everybodys bitch and its been that way for a while.
Lol. Your momma.
Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.
Do you think that the scheduling of teams today (playing FCS teams, playing 1 decent OOC game in most years, playing 4 OOC games) leads coaches to have better records than coaches in past years?
Perles played USC, ND and FSU in our Rose Bowl season. The toughest OOC games for Dantonio has been this year with Boise State, ND, CMU and EMU.
The schedule was tougher, but he lost to the crappy teams on the schedules too
Losing to Rutgers at home, the first game after winning the Rose Bowl, WTF
and he lost to CMU......twice.
This post was edited by WBill19542 20 months ago
Cheetah Legs Eli could catch his own pass if he is quick off the start.....and no 5 yard bump.
NFL pass - 50 to 60 mph
Cheetah top speed - 71 mph
"Leave the gun.....take the cannoli"
"It's not your job to be as confused as Nigel."
I think it has a little bit to do with it, but our conference records weren't particularly great either. Plus it's not like we didn't have "easy" OOC schedules (comparatively). In lovely 3-8 1991 we opened with Central (L), Rutgers (L), and ND (L). There were tons of clunkers on our dockets opponent-wise. If anything, past coaches should have benefited from a weaker Big Ten. Programs like Wisconsin and Northwestern have only been successful recently.
George Perles after 6 years - BIg Ten record of 29-18-3 (includes 2-6-1 in first year, 27-12-2 in years 2-5)
Mark Dantonio with 2 games left of year 6 - B1G record of 29-17 (includes 3-5 first year, 26-12 in years 2-5).
And you'd find a lot of people who think the Big Ten was better in the late 80's.
OOC games under Perles first 6 years (which is what the poster whom I replied to mentioned):
1983 - Colorado and ND
1984 - Colorado and ND
1985 - Arizona State, ND, WMU
1986 - Arizona State, ND, WMU
1987 - USC, ND, FSU
1988 - Rutgers, ND, FSU
BK took MDs Cincy team to the BCS. MD at MSU still hasnt made the BCS. Even fat hoke made a BCS game in his first year at scUM. Face it, we have a solid, stable coach, but he isnt winning natonal championships for us.
This post was edited by MSUx2 20 months ago
Probably not but realistically only a handful of programs can have that expectation.
Well, to be fair, if it were not for rules changes and OSU shenanigans, we'd have gone to the Rose Bowl in 2010. We beat Wisconsin, had the same record, and they went instead.
As for stability, 2009 and 2012 are showing that we are a yo-yo team and program. We have the defense Dantonio wants, but not the running attack, and not the discipline. The running attack is hard to correct with all our OL injuries over the last 2 years, but disciplined play is the one thing any team can control, regardless of talent level. If we had the discipined team that Dantonio talks about, we'd be undefeated in conference play.
When we got screwed by the refs, our players took to Twitter to complain. When PSU got screwed by the refs, McGloin refused to use it as an excuse, and said something like "We're never going to get that call. It's us agaisnt the world. We have to make it so the refs can't take a game away from us....". It's easy to see why PSU is outplaying MSU, despite all the turmoil they've had...they're just a much tougher team mentally.
Good coaching can overcome mediocre recruiting in the short term, but elite programs stay elite with recruiting. Any team can catch lightning in a bottle and become more than they sum of their parts in a given season, but that is not a model for long term success. Programs like Michigan, OSU, ND, Bama, USC, they stay competitive and good by constantly attracting the best talent.
You bring up an interesting topic and I'd like to take it a step further.
There's no doubt that MSU struggled for most of the time between 1970 - 2006. After all that mediocrity, I wonder if one coach is enough to turn the program around to being a NC contender?
I look at it a bit like Wisconsin. Alvarez took a program that had bottomed out and won 3 Rose Bowls in 16 years. In between his first Big 10 Championship in '93, and the '98 and '99 Rose Bowls, he went 7-4-1, 4-5-2, 8-5, 8-5.
After those 2 RBs, he went 9-4, 5-7, 8-6, 7-6, 9-3 and 10-3.
He won 11 games once in his HC career, in 1998.
Bielema took over and went 12-1, 9-4, 7-6, 10-3, 11-2, 11-3.
To me, it looks like Alvarez built the foundation and Bielema was able to build on it.
So, is MD MSU's Alvarez? It's hard to see him coaching more than 10-15 years, but if he can keep the bowl streak going this year, I can see him leaving a winning foundation for a younger coach to follow and take the program to new heights. I do think MD will take MSU to a Rose Bowl before his tenure is done. Like Alvarez, there have been set backs after successes; going 6-6 in 2009 after a 9-3 season in '08, following up 22 W's with a 5-5 record this year. Seems like MSU does take 2 steps forward but one step back; not too shocking when you consider the history they're fighting against.
When JLS left, I think the whole fanbase would be content with a guy who won more than he lost and provided stability. I'd say the team is stable; there hasn't been a major off field issue since Rather Hall (going on 3 years since that incident) and a 6th straight bowl is likely. Though the team hasn't made a BCS bowl, I'd say the program is getting healthier as a whole. I think part of the problem is that Michigan State had one foot in the grave after JLS (at risk of becoming IU) and now are expecting it to regularly run marathons.
I think we got a bit off topic when I brought up Perles, but I would like to address the Perles stuff briefly. I was simply saying that I think we are in a similar place today that we were in with George in the late 80s. We were a very strong team who had some success with a group of MSU's best skill players ever. Now, someone mentioned that I was probably a kid then, and you are right, I was 9 when we went to the Rose Bowl. I admit that I didn't know all the details behind why George eventually failed. I guess he was lazy in the end? That is totally fair, I don't think Dantonio will be lazy. I still think the comparison is reasonable and appropriate because clearly George didn't start out lazy. I also am thankful to the guy who did a head to head of George and Dantonios first seasons, along with the out of conference games. That was interesting if nothing else. Lastly, I upvoted the guy who called me George, that was funny.
Regardless, back to my original point. The difference between MSU and Notre Dame this year is either better players or better coaching. For those of you who support Dantonio as our best option and a great coach, you have to admit that we need better players to compete and not go .500. If you think recruiting ratings are pretty much BS and that we can find diamonds in the rough and "coach 'em up" as I see so often said on here, then you have to admit that Brian Kelly is simply a better coach than Dantonio. There is really not 3rd option. Sure, I get it that there are shades of grey with everything, and as I said in a previous post, if we were 7-2 or similar, I could accept that. Unfortunately, we are awful this season and will be somewhat fortunate to make a bowl game. I just don't see any other way to look at it.
IMO, Ffor what its worth, I think Dantonio is a good coach, and while I am fed up with the offense, that is fixable. We need better recruiting or we will rarely ever compete for a B1G title again; plain and simple.
I've kind of wondered the same think, although comparing closer to home is Coach D our Football Judd? I really think next season means a lot for perception both inside and outside the program. A down year followed by another will kind of solidify the perception of MSU as a flash in the pan. If the program rights itself that lends more legitimacy to the what Coach D is trying to do and build.
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