Online Now 1652

MSU Red Cedar Message Board

The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web

Online now 1640
Record: 10351 (3/11/2012)

Boards ▾

MSU Red Cedar Message Board

The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web

The Press Box

The place to ask questions to SpartanTailgate's recruiting experts

Duffy Daugherty Forum

"The Duff" is dedicated to Michigan State football recruiting discussion

Jack Breslin Forum

"The Bres" is dedicated to Michigan State basketball recruiting discussion

Wells Hall Off Topic Board

This is your pulpit to preach to the masses about everything from politics to religion

Marketplace & Ticket Exchange

The place to buy, trade or sell Michigan State tickets

Fantasy Sports Forum

For fantasy football and other fantasy sports discussion

Test/Feedback Forum

Reply

Thinking about dropping out of law school

  • Unless you hate it and want out, I'd sack up and give it your best shot while you've still got a chance at the scholarship. Even if you fail, at the end you will still feel a lot better about yourself. Nobody feels good about quitting.

  • RBW Spartan

    I'm in my 3L year, and I know where you are. I got my midterm back, I literally had a 10%. Only time in my life I've ever contemplated suicide. After 1L 1st semester I had a 2.5, I grad'd JMCwith a 3.7 and never studied. I learned how to study, and how to do exams, and have worked my ass off to drag that GPA above a 3.0 (I'm at a T20 so unforutnately everyone else is smart). Fortuantely, biglaw was never a question, so grades aren't the end all be all. 2nd year is much much easier. Stick it out 2nd semester if you're going for free. Once you finish the year, don't nessecarily quit on the idea of being a lawyer. Law school was a terrible choice, but I do look forward to practicing. Law school blows - it's not fun, it's not easy, it's not helpful, it's competitive, the people generally suck, and it's a huge cash suck. That being said, if you're 1 year in, for free, you haven't cost yourself anything. If money is an issue, think about transferring down to a Tier 3 school; however, if you want to be a lawyer, stick it out, even if you lose your schollie.

    If you want to talk about anything else, or even someone to bitch to, feel free to PM me.

    signature image
  • Pinky Tuscadero

    GreenAllDay said... (original post)

    Maybe I will go back to grad school and get into psychology

    I got my degree in Psychology and am actually working in my field. I'm one of the very few!

    When I graduated and got my first job it paid hardly anything. I went to MSUFCU to apply for a car loan and the loan officer saw my income statement. He asked what my degree was in so that he could warn his daughter to stay away from that track. lol

    I should say my income has about tripled since I first started here 15 years ago.

    signature image

    RCMB Join Date: September 2001

  • Double post

    This post was edited by Foxbat 2 years ago

  • It's not about how "hard" you work...it's about how "SMART" you work.

    When reading case law, find the rules of law, and know that cold for the exam. Know the facts of the cases for when you get called on in class, but the facts are not what you should be studying. Just know what each case was about, so you can relate those cases to the fact pattern on the exam. Know the rules and how to relate the rules to the facts. That is all. Good luck.

    This post was edited by SonnySpartanMon 2 years ago

  • Final Countdown said... (original post)

    Is it a coincidence that "law school bashing" threads always get started when I'm either in a law school class or at a legal internship? lol

    Not if you're a law student who spends a decent amount of time in law school class or a legal internship? shrug

  • If you have a better idea or plan do it. Get your plumbing license - there will always be a call for that.

  • Are there any hot chicks at State's law school?

    signature image signature image signature image

    When a horse learns to buy martinis, I'll learn to like horses.

  • Lawyers still earn livings and its a profession you can be doing well into your 70's if you enjoy it.

    There was a time when there weren't as many law schools and they were more selective. We have numerous lawyers who post here who do alright and they all didn't graduate from the old guard law schools. I read the OP's predicament and think maybe being admitted to law school has become so much easier due to the proliferation of places like Cooley that folks forget that no matter where you go, grad school is a grind. Unless you are one of those lucky brilliant people you need to be busting your ass and have a I'll sleep when I die attitude every semester.

    I'd give it one more semester and bust your ass. If you can't turn things around youhave a lot of time to find something new. A good friend got his law degree for a state university in the Midwest, practiced law and ended up buying one of his client's businesses. Left practicing law to run the business just 3 years after graduating. He says his law degree taught him a lot on how to think, draw up contracts etc.

    This post was edited by GRR Spartan 2 years ago

  • You work harder than 50% than your classmates? WOOWWWWW! That means you're in the top 50%. Holy crap, get this man a job!

  • GuiltyPleasure said... (original post)

    You work harder than 50% than your classmates? WOOWWWWW! That means you're in the top 50%. Holy crap, get this man a job!

    Good thing I never said that. Thanks though. I was just commenting on the fact that I thought I worked pretty hard relative to my classmates. I know it does not always correlate to good grades. Which is why I have to find out where I went wrong

  • GreenAllDay said... (original post)

    It's free this year. If I lose my scholarship, I am dropping out. I'm not paying for msu law.

    How hard is MSU's business school to get into if I only took 1 business class?

    I have a criminal justice degree and then went into accounting. If you want to eventually get into federal law enforcement doing things like investigating fraud, tax evasion, or forensic accounting, that's the way to go. Pay is good and I have a job lined up that I start next week.

    Criminal justice is fairly worthless on its own, IMO. Unless you want to be a cop or work in private security and work your way up. I realized that wasn't for me and I didn't want to make 35k a year working the night shift for some department. Not to mention all the bs that comes along with going that route.

  • Harry Callahan said... (original post)

    I have a criminal justice degree and then went into accounting. If you want to eventually get into federal law enforcement doing things like investigating fraud, tax evasion, or forensic accounting, that's the way to go. Pay is good and I have a job lined up that I start next week.

    Criminal justice is fairly worthless on its own, IMO. Unless you want to be a cop or work in private security and work your way up. I realized that wasn't for me and I didn't want to make 35k a year working the night shift for some department. Not to mention all the bs that comes along with going that route.

    Do you mind sharing what type of work you do and where you went to business school?

    This post was edited by GreenAllDay 2 years ago

  • JMCSpartan08

    GRR Spartan said... (original post)

    Lawyers still earn livings and its a profession you can be doing well into your 70's if you enjoy it.

    There was a time when there weren't as many law schools and they were more selective. We have numerous lawyers who post here who do alright and they all didn't graduate from the old guard law schools. I read the OP's predicament and think maybe being admitted to law school has become so much easier due to the proliferation of places like Cooley that folks forget that no matter where you go, grad school is a grind. Unless you are one of those lucky brilliant people you need to be busting your ass and have a I'll sleep when I die attitude every semester.

    I'd give it one more semester and bust your ass. If you can't turn things around youhave a lot of time to find something new. A good friend got his law degree for a state university in the Midwest, practiced law and ended up buying one of his client's businesses. Left practicing law to run the business just 3 years after graduating. He says his law degree taught him a lot on how to think, draw up contracts etc.

    I like everything about this post.

    signature image
  • Thank you everyone for the advice btw. I am going to devote 99% of my time to this and hopefully bust out a great semester. My specialty in undergrad was criminal and constitutional law, so hopefully it goes better

  • GreenAllDay said... (original post)

    I guess if anything I will have a ton of more time to study since my gf is away for an internship

    Sounds like law school in Vietnam is just as competitive as it is in the states.

  • GreenAllDay said... (original post)

    Do you mind sharing what type of work you do and where you went to business school?

    Give me a minute and I'll tell you my condensed story for what I did after graduation. Always willing to help people out.

  • Sorry for the long post but it's worth the read if you're serious about this.

    I graduated from state 4 years ago with a degree in CJ. I originally planned on going into federal law enforcement from the start. However, I quickly realized after graduation that everything MSU told me was complete horse shit. The counselors, professors, guest speakers, all that. They tell you how you can be so successful and all the alumni and blah, blah, blah. Those are the exceptions, not the norms.

    After graduation I started to apply with lots of police departments out of state, looked into the OCC police academy, and applied with federal agencies. Didn't ever hear back from the feds, interviewed at a couple places, but only snagged on to one department in Florida. I placed pretty well (not to brag but I'll show how competitive it is). I did well on the written exam, had the 3rd fastest time on their agility course test out of about 60 people of a mixture of former military and college students, passed the swim test (did ok), passed the panel interview, and passed the lie detector/stress test. Got to the academy part and they didn't admit me because a doctor didn't sign off on my physical exam. I could have pushed through but after 6-8 months of this crap I was kind of drained. Didn't want to be a cop in the first place and was sick of flying down to Florida and taking these tests just to be turned away. I quit at something for about the first time in my life and was pretty depressed about that.

    So then it had been a year with no job other than working landscaping (awful) so yeah, that sucked. At that point I looked into law school and did "aight" on the LSAT but thought if I didn't get into a top school, then screw it. I didn't want to do that either.

    I ended up thinking I'll go into accounting. My dad is a CPA, g/f (no pics) is a CPA, and I hung out with other accountants on the weekends. I figured if these guys can do it, then why can't I? So I applied to Loyola Univ. Chicago. Got in right away. I realized I didn't have very many relevant classes but did have a few pre req's done like econ, marketing, and a general business class because I did the private security specialty. I had the choice of doing undergrad for 2 yrs or doing all the pre req's, then taking the GMAT, and then doing all the masters level accounting courses. That would take me about 3 years assuming everything went smoothly and even more debt. I opted with the undergrad and got a 2nd bachelor degree. I have all the requirements done to take the CPA exam.

    Prior to graduation this year I interviewed with lots of places through the school. I got a job at a medium size firm in Chicago and I'll be doing audit with a little bit of tax work for small companies. My plan is to become a CPA and go from there. I'll basically be providing assurance that their financials are what they say they are and in compliance with GAAP. GAAP is the accounting rules for the US. It pays pretty well and I had so many different opportunities that I had to turn stuff down.

    I feel your pain. I was there about a year ago. I had to drop a course in accounting because I just wasn't getting it. Still, I came back for the next semester and I lived, breathed, and ate accounting. It's all I did. I sat in my apartment M-F working my ass off. When the weekend came I would be so stressed out that I drank myself retarded. When Sunday night rolled around I went back at it. Accounting didn't come all that easy for me but I willed myself to succeed. By the end of it, I knew it pretty well. Ended up graduating cum laude and now I await my job.

    It's a long post but man, I feel you. Just pick what you want to do and work at it. Life is difficult and you're starting to realize that. I felt like I was in a hole for a while but got out of it. It can be frustrating and depressing. Nobody will go out of their way to help you and it's all on your shoulders. Just give the next semester a go and see how you like it. One of my professors at LUC had a bachelor degree, MBA, and a law degree. He retired when he was in his 50's and has been teaching ever since. There are plenty of routes to go and maybe you'll look back in like 5, 10 years and it will all be worth it.

    Another good thing about accounting is all the paid internships. I did 3 in the past 2 years and made some pretty good money. One of my internships paid as well as what a cop would make starting out. Other accountants can probably back me up on that. Especially if you go big 4. You'll make bank.

  • I read all of it, that sounds a lot like my decision to go to law school after I decided I did not want law enforcement. Many thanks for your help, I will keep that option open if this semester does not work out.

  • GreenAllDay said... (original post)

    I read all of it, that sounds a lot like my decision to go to law school after I decided I did not want law enforcement. Many thanks for your help, I will keep that option open if this semester does not work out.

    Yeah, I wouldn't recommend the CJ program at MSU to anyone really. If you want to be a cop, all you have to do to get sponsored is have a bachelor degree and interview well. The bachelor degree can be in anything. The CJ degree really only helps if you want to go to grad school in CJ or just have fun and party while you attend college.

    I didn't learn any study habits in the CJ program. It was really easy. The one good thing about going to MSU that I will always take away was that I met a lot of my friends at MSU that I still hang out with today. I wish I would have just picked a better major from the start. Would have saved myself lots and lots of money. Live and learn.

  • beal99

    GreenAllDay said... (original post)

    Easier said than done. I have no options. I got a degree in criminal justice. the most worthless degree. I might just stick it out and try to save my scholarship. It's free this semester anyway

    Maybe I will go back to grad school and get into psychology

    criminal justice? get yourself in shape and get yourself to the police academy

    signature image signature image

    L.G.R.W.

  • I knew a few hard workers in law school. The ones who really struggled were those who, come test time, wrote pages and pages of their opinion as opposed to actually answering the question. "Let me tell you what the law should be and not what it actually is." Look back on your exams to see if that is a problem for you.

    That said, law school isn't worth massive debt.

  • Harry Callahan said... (original post)

    Sorry for the long post but it's worth the read if you're serious about this.

    I graduated from state 4 years ago with a degree in CJ. I originally planned on going into federal law enforcement from the start. However, I quickly realized after graduation that everything MSU told me was complete horse shit. The counselors, professors, guest speakers, all that. They tell you how you can be so successful and all the alumni and blah, blah, blah. Those are the exceptions, not the norms.

    After graduation I started to apply with lots of police departments out of state, looked into the OCC police academy, and applied with federal agencies. Didn't ever hear back from the feds, interviewed at a couple places, but only snagged on to one department in Florida. I placed pretty well (not to brag but I'll show how competitive it is). I did well on the written exam, had the 3rd fastest time on their agility course test out of about 60 people of a mixture of former military and college students, passed the swim test (did ok), passed the panel interview, and passed the lie detector/stress test. Got to the academy part and they didn't admit me because a doctor didn't sign off on my physical exam. I could have pushed through but after 6-8 months of this crap I was kind of drained. Didn't want to be a cop in the first place and was sick of flying down to Florida and taking these tests just to be turned away. I quit at something for about the first time in my life and was pretty depressed about that.

    So then it had been a year with no job other than working landscaping (awful) so yeah, that sucked. At that point I looked into law school and did "aight" on the LSAT but thought if I didn't get into a top school, then screw it. I didn't want to do that either.

    I ended up thinking I'll go into accounting. My dad is a CPA, g/f (no pics) is a CPA, and I hung out with other accountants on the weekends. I figured if these guys can do it, then why can't I? So I applied to Loyola Univ. Chicago. Got in right away. I realized I didn't have very many relevant classes but did have a few pre req's done like econ, marketing, and a general business class because I did the private security specialty. I had the choice of doing undergrad for 2 yrs or doing all the pre req's, then taking the GMAT, and then doing all the masters level accounting courses. That would take me about 3 years assuming everything went smoothly and even more debt. I opted with the undergrad and got a 2nd bachelor degree. I have all the requirements done to take the CPA exam.

    Prior to graduation this year I interviewed with lots of places through the school. I got a job at a medium size firm in Chicago and I'll be doing audit with a little bit of tax work for small companies. My plan is to become a CPA and go from there. I'll basically be providing assurance that their financials are what they say they are and in compliance with GAAP. GAAP is the accounting rules for the US. It pays pretty well and I had so many different opportunities that I had to turn stuff down.

    I feel your pain. I was there about a year ago. I had to drop a course in accounting because I just wasn't getting it. Still, I came back for the next semester and I lived, breathed, and ate accounting. It's all I did. I sat in my apartment M-F working my ass off. When the weekend came I would be so stressed out that I drank myself retarded. When Sunday night rolled around I went back at it. Accounting didn't come all that easy for me but I willed myself to succeed. By the end of it, I knew it pretty well. Ended up graduating cum laude and now I await my job.

    It's a long post but man, I feel you. Just pick what you want to do and work at it. Life is difficult and you're starting to realize that. I felt like I was in a hole for a while but got out of it. It can be frustrating and depressing. Nobody will go out of their way to help you and it's all on your shoulders. Just give the next semester a go and see how you like it. One of my professors at LUC had a bachelor degree, MBA, and a law degree. He retired when he was in his 50's and has been teaching ever since. There are plenty of routes to go and maybe you'll look back in like 5, 10 years and it will all be worth it.

    Another good thing about accounting is all the paid internships. I did 3 in the past 2 years and made some pretty good money. One of my internships paid as well as what a cop would make starting out. Other accountants can probably back me up on that. Especially if you go big 4. You'll make bank.

    You seriously thought you could get a federal law enforcement with no experience? They want the best of the best and they want you to prove that you are just that, so unless you have been a high ranking cop or military spec ops then there is virtually no chance that you get in.

    signature image signature image
  • vitocorleone,

    is the lobbying firm in Lansing?

  • GreenAllDay said... (original post)

    I read all of it, that sounds a lot like my decision to go to law school after I decided I did not want law enforcement. Many thanks for your help, I will keep that option open if this semester does not work out.

    While you may not want an additional degree, check out the school of labor relations and human resources at MSU. It fits nicely with a law degree (I have both), the paychecks for grads are very good. Additionally, since HR work is now so heavily litigious, the JD will open doors for you, even if you decide not to practice.

    Feel free to PM if you have other questions. Good luck.