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It's obvious that your empathy level for these folks is pretty low. If you can't understand why they give a f*&K, fine.
Just understand that they do. You can't control their rage and anger simply by saying it's misplaced or stupid. Nor is it your place to tell them that they should confine their anger only to politician and no one outside of that should be involved.
One example: The Dixie Chicks made a comment about the war in Iraq. People stopped buying their records and going to their shows.
They had every right to make their comments, and people had every right to not patronize them.
Actually, this is a message board. It is EVERYONE's place to comment on topics here. That is kind of the point.
The fact that you think I'm trying to control the "rage and anger" of Cubans is slightly bizarre. They have every right to be angry and to say so. Others have every right to state that overreactions are overreactions.
You have every right to tell me what you think my place is. I have every right to ignore your idea of what my place is and to think that your ideas make no sense and to tell you so. You have every right to tell me more forcefully what I had better do and think and I have every right to tell you to shove it.
Message boards, what a crazy idea.
"If you want to be the Man, then you have got to BE the Man." -- CA Sparty's Dad
I disagree with what Ozzie had to say about Fidel Castro but he still should have the right to his freedom of speech. I don't care what the Cuban Americans think, he should be able to express his opinion without losing his job. It is only the biased and repressive PC rules that prevent him from exercising his freedom of speech. Political correctness is incorrect..
The only things that may cost him his job are:
1. Marlins lose too many games.
2. Nobody shows up at the ballpark.
Historically though, many have lost jobs for saying stupid stuff. Most have been mentioned in this thread already.
One reason to give a fuck would be because he professed his "love" for someone who has imposed his evil fucking will on family and friends. Let's say your mother gets raped, god forbid, and Joe Blow professes his "love" for the rapist for avoiding prison after raping your mother. Would you feel the need to determine what Joe Blow does for a living before deciding if you give a fuck or would you resent the asshole regardless of his vocation?
dude, there is no reasoning with that guy. he's entrenched himself in his position. andy dufresne would call him obtuse.
I hope the Marlins' management is forced to fire Guillen due to market forces being impacted by the reaction of the community to just exactly who Ozzie Guillen is. I don't give a rat's ass about political correctness. I just want to see good ole' market forces at work, shoving Guillen's ass out the fucking door. Let him go coach the Cuban team.
First of all...you didn't answer the question.
Secondly...are you saying that Castro's actions have failed to surpass some self-determined degree of evilness that Hitler acheived, thus precluding any consideration as being evil enough to matter?
If so, where do you draw the line on significant evil vs. not-so-significant evil?
You're Jewish. Your grandparents survived the Holocaust. Will you now patronize the hardware store that sells the tools to assemble the signs held up by the American Nazi Party when it parades down the main street of your home town?
Political correctness is first and foremost political speech, as is political incorrectness.
And Ozzie didn't lose his job. Please pay attention. He has his freedom of speech. He is just punished by his employer when he exercises that freedom in a manner that costs his employer money. As you would be, as I would be, as anybody would be. What you're complaining about is that he was not allowed to give his opinion without consequences -- and that is most certainly not what the First Amendment guarantees.
Thank you, Denicos.
I can't decide if you are agreeing with me or calling me out.
Don't post poop!
No one took away his freedom of speech, and the Marlins had every right to fire him for what he said, or to not fire him for what he said. They're a private company and his comments deeply offended other employees of the company as well as a significant portion of their potential customer base. If they had chosen to fire him, that's business, not political correctness. I don't even see how you get any political correctness discussion out of this at all.
It will be very hard to determine if attendance is impacted by this, because they really have no basis for an attendance comparison in the new ballpark. They'll still get decent attendance for the first couple of months, regardless of this. After that, it depends on how good or bad they're doing. That's probably why he wasn't fired. They know he's more talented than anyone else that they could get to manage at this point, and they spent a lot on new players. They're banking on success (and the ensuing bandwagoners) quieting the controversy.
But if they're looking for an excuse, they could claim that almost any attendance is a disappointment. The Marlins have been trying to tell potential advertisers that they'll average 30-35,000 per game this year. They probably don't honestly expect that, but they could claim that anything short of that is a disappointment and point to Guillen as the scape goat if they want to get rid of him.
You aren't in Florida. Get up to speed yourself! The Tampa Bay Times said this morning that the team management is considering giving Ozzie the boot over this. That does not bother me. What does is that the phantom group who dream up what is allowable public commentary selectively apply PC rules based on their own opinions. Individuals in the public eye are fired all the time because they inadvertently say something outside PC boundries. Yet the self-appointed PC police have no problem allowing all kinds of degrading and bigoted comments to be made about others not protected by their biased PC rules of conduct. PC is hypocritical, many times avoids exposing reality to the public and silences honest free speech.
"He should be able to express his opinion without losing his job." Your words. Your belief. Unsupported by law.
Has he lost his job? No. May he lose it in the future over this or similar statements? Yes. (Just check his past.) Is that legally wrong? No, but it apparently pisses you off.
The rest of your comment is so over the top I have no response. Good day.
Edit -- My God, I just found the perfect pic for you.
This post was edited by SpartanInNH 2 years ago
I guess if I were the PC police, I could say your perfect little pic is also "over the top". It discriminates against women and makes them look mentally weak. Should you be banned? I rest my case.
Freedom of speech is an individual right. But your employer certainly has the right to set limits on what you say.
The new Marlins stadium was built in the middle of Little Havana and funded with city money. The whole marketing plan was to fill the stadium with paying customers, most of whom would come from a pool of Cuban-Americans. Ozzie can say whatever he wants, but as manager of the Marlins his job is to 1) win games and 2) sell tickets.
I don't think the general manager of any baseball team should make political comments to Time magazine. They should coach baseball. They can comment on their favorite music and pastimes but politics should be off limits.
Now you're going to hear about the PC police. Fair warning.
A few things this thread has taught me:
1. No matter how much common sense one believes their statements make, you'll always be able to find someone to disagree with you.
2. The ability of the RCMB to start at one subject and veer off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the original subject is boundless. Example: Ozzie's comments about respecting/loving Castro turn into a referendum on Pinochet and Samoza.
3. Politics finds a way to creep into damn near everything these days. No one, on either side of the political spectrum, can get into a discussion about baseball, selling tickets or being a loudmouthed character of a manager without polarizing political comments creeping in.
Opinions? Pierce is one of my favorite writers on Grantland.
A couple excerpts:
"Now, Ozzie Guillen has the same relationship with saying goofy stuff as a firehose has with water, so I was not entirely surprised when he said this. And, as far as loopy political commentary goes, this wasn't anything too far beyond Baltimore pitcher Luke Scott's being a Birther who opined, "Obama does not represent America. Nor does he represent anything what our forefathers stood for … He was not born here," which, being aimed at a sitting president, strikes me as a much more serious bit of idiocy than that aimed at the ex-head of state of a battered Caribbean island. Except, of course, that the United States has been out of its mind over Cuba for almost 60 years."
"The success of the exile community in Florida is a remarkable story, but, Lord knows, it's not without its darker side. With the inexcusable aid of several U.S. presidents, and according to documents gathered by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, that community has harbored outright terrorists, including the men allegedly behind the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner that killed 78 passengers (including the Cuban national fencing team). By way of comparison, many Irish-Americans who conspired to arm the IRA during the Troubles wound up in prison. Here, though, President George H.W. Bush went out of his way to pardon one of the men alleged to have helped arrange the bombing of the airliner. The rules always have been different, because of the investment — covert and otherwise — that the U.S. has made in destabilizing Castro, and the centrality of Florida to just about every presidential election of the past 40 years."
What Ozzie said was idiotic but what came after is even worse.
Thanks for posting...damn, those guys are full of the idiot sauce. Grantland should stick to their slideshow top 10 lists.
Pretty much once you get out of Miami, no one gives a crap about Castro or Cuba, but down here, local elections have more to do with that issue than with any local issues (which explains a lot....)
My take is that the blockade didn't work, since he or his brother is still in power....we trade with China and other horrible dictators, so why not Cuba, and pumping US$ onto that island probably would have settled things a long time ago....
Also the poor people of Cuba are going to be no better off if the Miami Cubans move back and take power back....
just my 3 cents...
Also, the Marlins knew what they were getting with Ozzie...that's why they signed up....they want the team to be in the news....
This post was edited by 305Sparty 2 years ago
Formally know as SouthFloridaSpartan
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