Online Now 1577

MSU Red Cedar Message Board

The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web

Online now 296
Record: 10351 (3/11/2012)

Boards ▾

MSU Red Cedar Message Board

The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web

The Press Box

The place to ask questions to SpartanTailgate's recruiting experts

Duffy Daugherty Forum

"The Duff" is dedicated to Michigan State football recruiting discussion

Jack Breslin Forum

"The Bres" is dedicated to Michigan State basketball recruiting discussion

Wells Hall Off Topic Board

This is your pulpit to preach to the masses about everything from politics to religion

Marketplace & Ticket Exchange

The place to buy, trade or sell Michigan State tickets

Fantasy Sports Forum

For fantasy football and other fantasy sports discussion

Test/Feedback Forum


What is the official RCMB view of the Ed Martin thing?

  • It's the Michigan Difference after all.

    "I love March!" - Tom Izzo

  • Taxes?

    I thought that was a fine for perjury?

    See my game worn MSU jersey website.

  • Frieder took over from Orr in 1980. He announced in 1989 just before the tournament that he was leaving for ASU at the end of the season. Schembechler fired him immediately and Fisher took over. Fisher then coached through the NCAA tournament and is credited with the 1989 national title.

    I agree that the 1989 title was also tainted.

  • #2 is an excellent point. I have said for years that I wish someone would write a true investigative book on the entire Michigan athletic department from the early 80s-late 90s. Think of all the shadiness. We know about a few pieces of the basketball scandal, the ones that couldn't be denied once Ed died. The baseball team was placed on probation for what was almost certainly a BS cover-up reason (coach paying players, but only from money he collected selling programs at football games, yeah right dude). Then factor in the surprising resignation of Bo from coaching (that can be somewhat explained, he was in bad health), but then like 8 days later he is resigning from being the AD as well in order to take a job with the Tigers? WTF? That sounds to me like someone who found something out that he either shouldn't have and/or that he left because it was getting too crazy. Either way, something very bizarre was happening in AA during those year. We only know the tip of the iceberg on this story.

    This post was edited by Binford4State 12 months ago

  • I wonder what Webber's book will say.

    That said we all know what a sore subject with Izzo this is. Not only did Ed and that dumb ass PSL coach pay players to go to U of M hell they paid them to not attend state.

    Hindsight is 20/20 but f U of M.

  • There is no THINKING 1989 was tainted. Its a proven fact. I believe Terry Mills admitted to taking cash (if not him, then his dad or Martin, or someone directly involved--i.e., nor hearsay). But, it was beyond the statute of limitations, so the FBI couldn't look back that far. That is the ONLY reason that 1989 was not vacated

    As a side note, remember how UM, the Big Ten, and the NCAA found no wrong doing in their investigations during the late 90s? Yet UM fired Fisher because of the scandal....yes, a scandal in which they found no wring doing. Huh? Makes perfect sense, right?

  • izzone89

    The NCAA has never vacated a national championship in a revenue sport, right?

    Remind yourself. Nobody built like you, you design yourself.

  • The NCAA started to be a huge joke about 15yrs early. For a lot of people this whole charade just cemented that thought.

  • I think this might help. No specific claims of wrongdoing in the 80's but it is implied that it was likely.

  • nerd tDowntown Athletic Club, which awards tHeisman, has no affiliation with tNCAA.

  • I saw Terry Mills' family at MI HS playoffs for 3 years. The first 2 years it was clear they were struggling financially looking at the vehicle they were using, dental health etc. Mills senior year things had changed in a big way for them. He was going to umma.

    Were events related? There was major speculation by people like the Freep's Mick McCabe and Detnews Fred Girard but they couldn't get any traction from their own editors for years.

  • I saw Billy play grab ass and getting pretty hammered - very publicly with co eds at the nectarine ballroom circa 1988.

    Heard that wasn't exactly unusual. Just saying.

  • izzone89

    Yeah but who doesn't get hammered and play grab-ass at Necto?

    But to your point he has always seemed like a sleaze ball in every aspect of life, not just coaching.

    Remind yourself. Nobody built like you, you design yourself.

  • Gob_Bluth

    Right. If I were a betting man, I'd say that last year's Kentucky team will be the first champion to have to vacate, solely based on Calipari's track record.

    tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.

  • I didn't do anything wrong, just helped a few poor kids with some cash so they could by a McDonald's hamburger while the university made millions selling their jerseys.

  • Borrowed this from an Optiking search here...

    The truth about the Fab Five and Michigan Basketball:
    1. “These are the most flagrant violations where money is involved in the history of intercollegiate athletics” (Don Canham-former UM AD)
    2. “I kept hearing minor violation, minor violations- these are major, major violations.” (Don Canham).
    3. “The entire era of the Fab five was a disgrace to the University of Michigan (Don Canham)
    4. On Bill Martin saying they had a wonderful legacy. “I thought what he said was complete nonsense and he didn’t know anything about the situation or didn’t want to know.” (Don Canham) Note-- (Bill Martin later changes his mind and wants distance between UM and the Fab Five, however, it did not occur before Jimmy King and Ray Jackson help recruit Daniel Horton to UM).
    5. “The thing that bothers me is that they fired Tom Goss (UM AD) because he tried to clean it up.
    (Don Canham).
    6. “This continued ever after Fisher left. (Don Canham)
    What Happened:
    1. Four players were paid $616,000 dollars –Chris Webber, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor, Louis Bullock. However the scandal long before this and ended long after.
    2. McCabe/Freep: Martin paid players to go to UM and nowhere else. Taylor’s girlfriend said he had nothing when she met him and everything after. McCabe mentioned WJR as part of the cover-up and that they chose someone else to speak on the issue (Spadafore).
    3. Ed Martin was involved with the following players minimally and many more players suspected:
    A. Glen Rice (85-89)
    B. Terry Mills(87-90)
    C. Chris Webber (91-93)
    D. Jalen Rose (91-94)
    E. Maurice Taylor (94-97)
    F. Louis Bullock (95-99)
    G. Robert Traylor (95-98)
    H. Albert White (96)
    4. UM investigation did not go back to include Terry Mills or Glen Rice who had a clear connection to Ed Martin per March 24th, 2002 article by Jim Carty.
    5. Robert Traylor, Maurice Taylor, and Louis Bullock all took money AFTER the banning of Ed Martin.
    6. Ed Martin in fact took Mills father to the Windsor Raceway in 1984.
    7. Jamal Crawford took three loans from Barry Henthorn all between 15,000-25,000 and received 3-vehicles including a Mercedes, gifts, AFTER the banning of Ed Martin. (There seems to be a connection between Henthorn and Martin also ).
    8. Albert White took $37,000 from Ed Martin to attend UM per Sept 4th, 1999 Freep article. Although less money than others, this proved to be the most damaging. Because money was also given to his family and friends to influence his decision, which countered Martin's claim that this was a loan to be repaid.
    9. Reporter John Beckett (October `12th, 1999, Ann Arbor News) said he told Steve Fisher after the 1989-90 season that players were getting “golden handshakes” and boosters were “slipping players money after games” and Fisher did nothing. Said Beckett, “Fisher was perfectly content ‘not’ knowing.”
    10. UM claimed that Martin gave money to players that went to other schools, however the only one that even remotely true was Albert White, who took $37,000 to go to Michigan and then transferred to Missouri after falling out with the coaching staff. As Voshon Leonard, Willie Burton, Anderson Hunt found out—if you don’t go to UM, you get nothing.
    11. Bill Martin mislead people by saying Ed Martin was not a traditional booster—“because he didn’t go to UM or attend football games.” However he attended a lot of basketball games.
    12. Chris Webber took 50,000 dollars the day he signed with UM.
    13. Webber's family received also received money and gifts to influence his decision.
    14. Steve Fisher allowed Martin to sit next to recruits at games with complimentary tickets.
    15. Ed Martin often set up recruit press conferences and handed out UM hats.
    16. Ed Martin set up strippers and alcohol for recruits.
    17. Ed Martin received hotel reservations to the Final Four on the team floor. Something the most ardent booster cannot do.
    18. Ed Martin was in Robert Traylor’s house during Steve Fishers in-house visit.
    19. Fisher made numerous phone calls to Ed Martin per phone records also including pertaining to the final four.
    20. Fisher wrote a note that explained Ed Martin was to sit next to recruit Willie Mitchell on Feb 18th, 1994.
    21. Mick McCabe/FREEP: “Ed Martin paid players to go to UM and nowhere else, UM lacked institutional control…UM did a cover up, and other teams wasted a lot of time, effort, and money, to recruit players UM bought".
    22. Bullock and Traylor took money only in college showing a direct connect between UM and Ed Martin.
    23. Antoine Joubert took large amounts of money to ‘mow lawns’ for Ed Martin.
    24. When indicted, Ed Martin stood on the courthouse steps and shouted, “Go Blue!”
    25. Ed Martin paid for an apartment for Chris Webber and Jalen Rose.
    26. Robert Traylor sometimes listed his address as 17430 Fairway Drive, which happened to be Ed Martins home address.
    27. Money wasn’t the only gifts—apartments, cars, furs coats, jewelry, cologne and perfumes, cakes, food, etc. were also included.
    28. Handwriting experts said Steve fisher forged (“PW”) on complimentary tickets to Ed Martin. Fisher said this was to show who requested them (allegedly Perry Watson), but Fisher fails to tell investigators this.
    29. Mick McCabe claims that “UM lobbed softball questions to Ed Martin because they didn’t want to know the truth.”
    30. FBI special agent John Bell said, “Players were less than forthcoming".
    31. Chris Webber refused to answer questions related to point shaving. (Ann Arbor News, August 3rd, 2000).

    32. UM did not only three poor investigations, but had to reopen investigations in both the Ed Martin case on May 28th, 1999 but in the Jamal Crawford case in 2000.
    33. Had a proper investigation been done back to Mills and others, this coincided with major baseball violations in UM’s program from 1983-1988 including Rice, Mills, and apparently Jalen Rose.
    34. The FBI raided Martins home and ten other homes and found receipts connecting Ed Martin and players. They also found gambling ledgers, drug paraphernalia, large amounts of cash, and autographed posters of the Fab Five.
    35. Former UM player Leslie Rockymore who played for Bill Frieder, said Ed Martin was frequently around the program and gave gifts to Terry Mills.
    36. The Fab Five helped increased revenue from 1.6 million to 6.2 million but UM only chose to repay $450,000.
    37. “Fisher knew exactly what Martin was doing, Fisher let Ed Martin become his partner, keeping the programs best players happy, there’s no denying that anymore.” (Jim Carty).
    38. “It is absolutely unforgiveable that Bullock was allowed to pull this off after the dust has settled, this one won’t go away easily, because the Bullock episode comes after the whistle was first blown on Ed Martin and after UM conducted it’s own investigation.”
    39. Other boosters came to light as well including Barry Henthorn, Marion Jones, and James Brown.
    40. Jalen Rose was ticketed for loitering at a drug house during a raid. (1993)
    41. Jimmy King, Ray Jackson, and Chris fields steal beer form a Dairy Mart. (1994)
    42. Charles Woodson and David Bowen received money, clothes, transportation and other perks from agents Darnell Jones and James Brown while Woodson is in college. Jones said he “discovered” Woodson long before 1997 and that he gave Woodson and his mother gifts including a fur coat. Some claim that UM knew and kept this a secret until 2001 when the NCAA statute regarding further penalty ran out. Had UM reported this he likely would have received a one-game suspension like Peter Warrick of FSU and lost the Heisman Trophy and perhaps a National Championship for UM.
    43. During this time Jamal Crawford comes to light:
    A. He receives three loans and three vehicles including a Chevy Blazer.
    B. He also receives numerous gifts, cash, a Mercedes, and gold jewelry.
    C. Barry Henthorn said UM knew about the gifts from “Day One”.
    D. Henthorn’s assistant Darcienne LeRoue files a lawsuit claiming she was coerced into signing three loans to “evade NCAA rules.”
    E. It is discovered the third vehicle is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and that he also received housing, spending money, and clothes as well.
    F. Crawford receives $25,000, the NCAA asks him to return $11,300.
    44. UM Academic fraud and steering athletes to easier classes happened even in this era, and nothing is done.

    1. Steve Fisher “recruited Ed Martin.”
    2. Steve Fisher gave Ed Martin complimentary tickets to sit next to recruits.
    3. Fisher invited or allowed Ed Martin to be present on Robert Traylor’s in-home visit.
    4. Martin received dozens of comp tickets at least 36 comp tickets between 91-92, and 93-94 seasons.
    5. Fisher made at least 39 phone calls to Martins home in a short period of time.
    6. Fishers assistant Perry Watson and Ed Martin allegedly became good friends in 1981.
    7. Um coaches claim they “treated with Ed Martin with respect for fear he could have a negative impact on recruiting.”
    8. Fisher did not report an apartment deposit to UM AD Joe Roberson.
    9. Fisher was allegedly aware of Robert Traylor driving a $47,000 vehicle and Traylor giving tickets to a friend with ‘drug convictions’ and did nothing.
    10. Fishers players have “numerous inconsistencies” on rollover accident.
    11. Fisher booked a room on the team floor for Ed Martin at the Final Four, an advantage not even the most ardent booster could receive.
    12. Fisher claimed UM put intense pressure to recruit well and he courted Perry Watson, and employed Juwan’s guardian Donnie Kirksey at his summer camp despite Kirksey’s minimal basketball credentials. Kirksey also receives outrageous fees.
    13. After the 1989-90 season reporter john Beckett informed fisher that players were “getting golden handshakes” and "boosters were slipping players money after games" and "in the locker room". (John Beckett, Ann Arbor News, Oct 12th, 1997)
    14. Beckett said “Fisher was perfectly content not knowing.”
    15. Fisher had a written note specifying that Ed Martin be given permission to sit next to Willie Mitchell., basketball recruit on Feb 19, 1994. A violation of NCAA bylaw 13.0212.
    16. Fisher allows Ed Martin to attend to attend Albert White’s and Robert Traylor’s press conference and hand out a “large bag of UM hats.”
    17. Maurice Taylor had a $40,000 vehicle Fisher claimed belonged to Taylor’s aunt, Sabrina Lloyd who lived in a house assessed at $31,000.
    18. Perry Watson said he did not know if he approved comp tickets for Ed Martin, but it was “possible” he had. Fisher said Watson arranged comp tickets for Ed Martin on “several occasions”. Watson then said he “doesn’t remember.”
    19. A Kansas law firm showed that Fisher forged “PW” on at least 5 or 6 handwriting samples.
    20. Kansas law firm claims that Fisher states he never wrote Watson's initials. At another time he said he initialed some to show who requested them.
    21. Fisher states, “Until August of 1996, no one told me Ed Martin was someone I needed to be leery of or concerned about, end of discussion.” (Ann Arbor New Oct. 14th, 1997, by Rich Thomaselli). However report Beckett said he went to Fisher after the 1989-90 season?

    1. Reporter Fred Girard was shouted down at Steve Fishers press conference when he tried to ask questions. “If you don’t shut up, you can get the hell out.” He was told.
    2. (The Scene): UM brings a ton of fishers family, friends, and supporters in a scene reminiscent of the “We believe in Steve rally”. A divided wall was rolled away, revealing UM basketball players in a ballroom, and ‘on cue’ these supporters erupt into applause.
    3. Tom Kelleher (Fisher Friend) say Fisher would make a statement would take no questions.
    4. Girard tries to ask a question, supporters shout out, “No questions, shut up, throw him out.”
    5. Fisher says “Can someone help me out?”
    6. Kelleher runs down the aisle and confronts reporter Girard, “You want to stay or you want to go, you want to stay or you want to go! Make up your mind now. We established the rules so keep your mouth shut!”
    7. Fast forward to November 8th, 2002. “I want to emphatically state that once again I had no knowledge of any involvement in the exchange of money from any of our players and Ed Martin.”
    (Fisher). This statement despite what Beckett had said.

  • You're right...I had forgotten that so thanks for the correction. I do think UM cheated during the Orr regime too. It didn't just begin with Bill "Towel Boy" Frieder...I'm pretty sure of that.

    "I love March!" - Tom Izzo

  • A couple of things missing that I haven't read yet in this particular thread:
    1) A few of you have mentioned that UM and NCAA (and even media) investigations didn't come up with anything. The reason is that those entities have no sub-peona power. The people involved that were interviewed don't have to answer anything if they don't want to. The ONLY reason this blew open was because of the gambling ring that was exposed. That's when the FBI, DOJ, and the IRS stepped in. Those entities DO have sub-peona power, and all parties were compelled and required by law, to provide answers. This is when all of the good stuff came to light. If not for the gambling ring, none of this would've been expose.
    2) Ed Martin did help many kids that did not go to UM, but that doesn't mean he is/was not a UM booster. He hung out at playgrounds throughout the city and befriended all of the potential hot players when they were in grade school by giving them free shoes and other "gifts". As the best players would rise to the top, he would increase the gift giving and friendships that evolved. As a UM booster, he tried to steer the best kids to UM. He succeeded most o the time, but sometimes he did not. Most UM fans will point to the fact that since not every kid went to UM, he should not be considered a booster, but as an ambassador to poor inner-city kids that he was just trying to help out. We all know this is a line of bullshit.

    I do have a couple of questions that i have are this:
    1) What, exactly, does "vacated" mean?
    2) Why hasn't Cleaves come out to say everything that happened with the recruiting process? Former UM players don't say anything due to loyalty - I get that. But Cleaves was directly involved in the Explorer accident that started it all, and undoubtedly has some inside info on how Ed Martin recruited the kids. Maybe he did come out and say something abut it, but I've never heard it.

  • It was a Fab Five thing, not an Ed Martin thing.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Question authority. Power to the people

  • Myth is simply pimping his next book.

  • Be on the lookout for your free lunch...

  • False. It hit its peak under Martin but look at the relationships that Martin and Watson had with UM athletes pre-fab five and post. I'm sure it's coincidence that a number of high profile prospects from Detroit Southwestern ended up at UM even pre-fab 5 given that Watson was Martin's middle man.

  • Another thing to note.. Frieder was also the coach at Arizona State when they were hit with a huge point shaving scandal.