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That's good to know. How dare you to even question David Girard questioning Tom Izzo? Just who the hell do you think you are, huh?
But since you're apparently just messing around, I'll let this incident slide.
We averaged 15 turnovers a game until he was removed from the lineup two games ago. The last two games we had, what, 8 and 10 turnovers? He's creative and will be a good player, but right now we're better when Valentine is kept on a short leash.
Trice is healthy now and he is playing better basketball than Valentine. Hence, Valentine's minutes are getting squeezed.
I understand and agree with Trice getting minutes over Valentine. What I did not understand is Byrd subbing for Dawson rather than Valentine when BJ picked up his third foul. I haven't seen Byrd's +/- but he had to have been like -7 in about 90 seconds of play.
What a twit...
May your Grandmother piss on your socks!
Edit: Valentine is a little too lax with the ball for that kind of game.
This post was edited by Bender 18 months ago
Nίκη για MSU
Getting close to Valentine's Day, he's due to bounce back soon.
Valentine likes to make things happen but he has to learn when and how to do this within the game plan. As with Green early, Izzo keeps a guy like this on a short leash. It's hard for a player like Valentine to adjust to being "just another guy out there" (as Dakich said of Gary Harris - and I gotta say, as a fan, that it's hard to watch someone with the multi offensive talents as Harris seem so little involved for long stretches on offense). A big reason for the diminishment of Valentine's minutes is the way the games have gone. Even games against lesser teams have been tight until the end. Izzo is going to play the more expericence ball handler, Trice, in those situations. No doubt Valentine is frustrated but if he makes the best of his chances his role with the team will increase maybe as the season progresses - certainly by next season.
Valentine has had big minutes for us and will again. He had a very productive 10 minutes last night. I still think that there are a lot of flaws with the Nix,Payne,Dawson big front court, especially with transition defense and ball switches. Defensively our best team is with Valentine at the 3. Offensively, we seem to have things figured out with the 3 bigs. There are going to be plenty of matchups remaining whereby we use Valentine at the 3 and Dawson at the 4.
I think it comes to valuing possessions. Valentine still has a tendency to be just a little too turnover prone to play extended minutes in a game like this at this point in his career.
Valentine doesn't look poised and ready just yet. He has some good skills, but he doesn't seem to value the ball. Once he realizes that every possession is important he'll be back in there. For right now I like Nix, Payne, Dawson, Harris, and Appling. Trice has been solid off the bench as well.
Good discussions here. For those questioning playing Byrd, it's worth noting the following
-It was his first appearance in 2 games. Izzo probably wanted to get him some PT and see how he'd respond.
-He only played less than 2 minutes, so it's not like he cut into Valentine's minutes by much
-No one expected him to play as poorly as he did last night. That was Byrd's worst game of the year by far. And Izzo pulled him out quickly.
Quite simply, Valentine hasn't been very good this year, especially of late. No question the kid has skills, but there is a lot to pick up playing for MSU, especially for someone who handles the ball as much as Valentine does. He is getting better at making the simple pass instead of trying to make the spectacular play every time. That will help him earn more time.
He is a good rebounder in traffic, but even in that facet of the game, tends to be lackadaisical. Case in point last night....Brust (I think) shoots a 3 from the wing in front of MSU bench with Valentine providing a nice closeout with hand in the face. Ball is shot and hits rim and comes right back to the area where shot was taken. Valentine didn't box out or even stay in front of his man. He was up by half court. Brust simply walked up to get the rebound, and since Valentine was out of play, Gauna had to pick up Brust. Brust feeds ball low to post and moves to corner. Valentine picked up Gauna's man, so Gauna stayed with Brust. Gauna leaves Brust to dig down on post (Bergrenn maybe or Bozo). Ball gets kicked out to corner where Brust nails a 3 with Gauna late on closeout. Dakich chastises Gauna for doubling down etc., and most think that is Gauna's fault. Yes, he does need to get some blame for that, but that whole sequence is alleviated if Valentine does his job on the rebound. Pretty sure we all know how Izzo feels about rebounding and missed box outs. Especially in a game where every possession is huge against a grind it out type team.
IMO, Valentine has not hit the wall yet. He is been outplayed by others and has lost minutes because of it. If MSU plans on accomplishing big things this year, it will need major contributions from Valentine. I think they will come, but were not going to come last night. Looks like Valentine is improving and not sulking with this change of late, which is great. Sign of maturity on his part, and will only improve and get more time as season goes on. Kid is too talented and brings a lot to the table. Once he completely gets it, look out.
Wow - that's saying a lot - because he has been lost all year.
I completely disagree. Valentine has been great for a true Frosh. His passing and rebounding skills are exceptional. He's shooting a higher percentage than I think a lot of people thought he would. His turnovers need to get better, but his turnover rate is lower than some highly ranked freshman guards we have had, like Cleaves and Taylor.
Also, the stats don't lie. MSU has been very productive with him on the court, as evidenced by his team leading +/-. It's not necessarily his individual play, but that he is a versatile player on a team full of not very versatile guys. He can plug into a few different spots and we don't suffer offensively or defensively because of it. When he is off the court, there is usually a defensive weakness either in the post or on the perimeter another team can exploit. Ultimately, he is going to be an incredibly valuable player.
Through the Minnesota game he was outstanding. He did slow down some since. Freshman wall, the riggers of conference play, or something maybe. But all the negativity towards Valentine is a little crazy considering all he has done this year.
Wow, if Valentine has been "outstanding" this year, what has Harris been? Valentine was outstanding vs Oakland. MSU may very well lose that game if not for him. Other than that, he has been like most freshman at MSU. Good at times, lost at others.
I don't hate Valentine, actually think highly of him. He is very average right now on defense. Saying we do not suffer at times with him at the end is silly. Is he brutal? Not at all. He is still learing and it costs MSU at times.
To be fair, he's only leading the team in +/- in the big games. His overall +/- was trending down noticeably in the past 6 weeks, until last night.
He's finding his way, but i maintain that against Wisconsin specifically you don't go big minutes with anyone who might be unsure of themselves. You put them in for a few minutes to get their feet wet for the future, and then sit them back down and have them watch the guys who know what to do. It's a slow enough pace you can just about play 5 guys the whole game.
This. And I simply do not understand the two headed monster move. Hopefully after that stellar performance, he will shelve this matchup catastrophy.
Against teams without a center, give me Denzel over Nix all day long.
Trice has definitely done some nice things for us this year.
Anybody know why he's so bad at shooting when it's inside the 3 point line? I swear he has missed every single jump shot he's taken this year when it's a 15-20 footer.
"HE GOT IT!"
He LITERALLY just made a long 2 yesterday, but I'll play anyway...
Some shooters are just more comfortable from longer range. Also, he's short and his release is low. When he's shooting a deep 3, he usually gets a clean look at the basket and can shoot it with the arc he likes to shoot it. When he's in a bit more traffic, he has to adjust his arc to get it over defenders, and probably loses some accuracy in doing so.
I completely forgot about that one. Probably because I thought it was a 3 up until I saw the replay.
Just took a look at his stats. 42% from 3. 19% inside the arc. That's unreal.
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