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It's clear to me after reading your posts that you've never played basketball at any level.
The ONLY thing that this rule does is punish the offensive player. The way it was interpreted last night, a defender is allowed to sit in your shorts without penalty, but as soon as you pivot it's going to be a foul.
To anybody who thinks that you can protect the ball without having elbows out: bullshit. That's just asking to get the ball stolen. You need your arms bent to have a strong hold on the ball. It's what I teach the kids on my 7th grade team, it's what I was taught starting out in rec leagues as an 8-year old. Moving your upper body to clear space is a fundamental basketball move, it's ridiculous that the NCAA is trying to get rid of it.
tRCMB - Visit at your own risk of being disgusted.
I have empathy for a defender in front court who is guarding his man closely and gets tagged with a swinging elbow.
But zero for guys who in the backcourt are trying to hack the ball away from a rebounder. Everyone over 6 feet tall knows this is a bullshit move that almost allows the defender to foul without any call. The age old way of preventing it was to let them know an elbow may be coming if it keeps up.
There is a difference between clearing space with your elbows and throwing an outlet pass from above your head with your elbows extended.
It's the swinging of the elbows that's the problem. Your elbows can flex and extend - but you cannot swing the elbows. I think part of the problem with people grasping this rule is that for too long, the rebounder has been allowed to displace defenders for this type of play. I think the OP even said that it "has been taught for years" to clear space after you get ba rebound by swinging your elbows. At our officials meetings for my officials association, we have been told that swinging the elbows is an automatic flagrant even if you don't make contact. However, we have also been told to watch closely for fouls on the defender in these cases ie - pushing down low with the body, ANY contact on the arm of the rebounder, etc.
You can still have your arms bent and elbows out, just not at head level. Has to be shoulder level or below. Again, stupid rule.
And a foul every time. You cannot clear space like that. You should teach your 7th graders the rules instead of "old school" basketball. They'll be much better off.
Pussification of America at its finest.
Definitely a stupid rule. Every time Nix brought his arms and the ball below his shoulders against UConn, some midget forced a turnover.
You're dead wrong. I'm not teaching my kids to swing their elbows a la Purdue's Kramer. I'm teaching them to not keep the ball in a vulnerable position when there are defenders around. And, I hope you're sitting down, this sometimes involves moving your elbows.
and a stupid rule and call.............................
no one here is saying, swing your elbows and throw them, they are saying pivot with your elbows out and be strong with the ball.
so since you are an official and i am a coach tell me what I am supposed to teach my girls, get rebound and then what?
how are they supposed to turn and look up court without it looking as if their elbows are swinging while they are pivoting?
This post was edited by AUAlum06 17 months ago
and if this is going to be an automatic flagrant, contact or no. then it is going to be a very long basketball season
so what are we supposed to teach?
Yeah. Because we should just ignore CTE and all of the symptoms/side effects of it. We need these guys to stop being sissies so we can be entertained and they can be suicidal at 45.
Totally ignorant statement.
I think you are supposed to teach them to go play volleyball or join the swim team or something along those lines. If what the ref posters above have said is true, basketball is dying.
totally ignorant response
again, no one is saying throw a cheap shot elbow to someone's head
better outlaw spiking in volleyball, someone might take a head shot and get a concussion
I'm responding to you having a problem with this "new emphasis on protecting the head"
Have you had your head in the sand? This shit is real, whether you "tough guys" like it or not. To ignore it or act like it isn't important is just....wrong. Its an issue
agree, it is an issue and have no problem with getting rid of the cheap shots to the head
however, last night with Nix was a basketball play, it happens, no way that can be flagrant
guess what contact to the head is going to happen, no matter how many rules you make up
if you want to avoid it, don't play
again, what should have Nix done instead?
what should I be teaching my girls to do instead?
and I'm not sure Nix even knew the second guy was behind him.
i'd be fine if they eliminated the charge and everything was a block
If I dont misremember, on the Nix play, the whistle initially blew for a reach in foul on Boise?.. Boise coach then lobbied for an elbowing flagrant on Nix. In my opinion, if a foul is called on the defender first there should be no elbowing foul unless it is deemed to be a malicious elbow.
Your exact quote was "Moving your upper body to clear space is a fundamental basketball move". This is a clear foul. That's alls I'm saying.
Your memory is correct. The Boise player in question also claimed pretty loudly that he got elbowed. Of course one could argue that if he hadn't borderline molested Nix, he would've never made contact with Nix's elbow.
They can swing their elbows. But if a defender is right on them, they can't swing them high. Don't get pissed at me. I'm just telling you what the rule is and how it's going to be called.
You're wrong. Read the rules. Verticality and "entitled space" (whatever that is) does no include the area that your elbows sticking out would cover.
So I ask you what can a guy like Nix do when two guys jump at him (to no initial whistle) that wouldn't end up in a turnover or foul on the play that happened last night?
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