MSU Red Cedar Message Board

Of course this staff misses on players. Every staff misses on players, but some staffs miss a lot more than others, not just on three-stars, but on four and five-star prospects as well. You should be grateful that Coach D and his staff don't have that problem on the scale of Rich Rodriguez or Houston Nutt instead of bitching about where MSU falls in the recruiting rankings.

By the way, there's a reason class rankings correlate to success. The recruiting services know they wouldn't be taken seriously if they didn't, and no one would pay for membership. They learned very quickly which coaches and programs were the most successful at recruiting and developing NFL talent into championship teams, and made sure the players being recruited by those coaches got high ratings. Did you think it was just coincidence that players being recruited by Alabama or USC gain a star or two almost as soon as the offer comes in?

I told you I'm out. No more "arguments".

And btw...I am grateful for . You "star nazis" take every mention of stars as a personal attack, which it is not. In fact, everything I've posted is a testament to the continually improving recruiting under .

People like you, however, can't see anything beyond "STARS ARE MEANINGLESS DAMNIT! YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!!"

And please show me where I have "bitched" about MSU's class ranking. You're so blinded by your views that you see things that aren't there.

Now I know why everyone thinks your an asshole, you are. How do you make a living as an attorney when you can't understand the written word? Reread my post and then apologize for being a dumbsh*t.

No. I think you fucking blowers are assholes. You can't respond without losing your tempers. It's fucking hilarious to read your pathetic excuses. You spin this shit by saying stars don't matter when we Whif on the four star, but when we land one you are all excited. Suck it fanboy.

And based on my posts I've been called a demand excellencer. Your the first to label me a sunshine blower. Once again, how do you function in a court if you can't follow dialogue? Did I not say don't get too excited if we sign a 5 star or too disappointed if we sign a two star? And kiss my ass moran.

How many 2*s dominate like Too Tall? I love Leveon, but nobody ever called him the best player on the field. Gholston has shown the ability to take over a game.

If we sign 10 5*'s, the anticipation would be off the charts. 10 2*s? Not so much.

You should take a look at the whole class.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/michiganstate/football/recruiting/commitments/2007/michiganstate-30

First, Robinson wasn't there. Celek was a contributor, but never what you would term an "impact player". Pickelman has a good RS SR year, otherwise he was hurt/ineffectual. The class did have Greg Jones, Chris L. Rucker, Kirk Cousins, BJ Cunningham, Joel Foreman and Mark Dell. 6 very good to great players out of a group of 23.

Now look at Andre Anderson, David Duran, Chase Dumphord, Antonio Jeremiah, Ishmyl Johnson, Michael Jordan, Ashton Leggett, Jared McGaha, Chris D. Rucker, Ryan Wheat and Oren Wilson. The '08 class has an even higher wash-out rate.

MSU won 11 games last year because the few stars from the '08 and '07 classes were bolstered by the '09 and '10 classes who developed quickly. The D was over 1/2 RS Sophs or younger; 7/11 were from the the '09 and '10 classes, 8 if you count ARW as a starter.

The success of the '10 class is well beyond the average already. Great job by the staff of identifying talent, but there's definitely a correlation between MSU getting classes with better overall star ratings ('07 and '08 were 2.7-ish, '09 was 3.3, '10 was 3.1) and getting better overall production from the class.

This forum really does become insufferable sometimes. Need an ignore user feature.

Don't you find it obvious that the kids who are truly outstanding are easily identified and tagged 5 stars? That is called being a master of the obvious and just about anyone can predict the kid will succeed. Now think how do you differentiate between a 3 and a 4? You think there might be low 4's and high 3's? How about a high 2 or low 3. Stars are like playing odds at the track. Chalk usually gets you in the money but occassionally disapoints. Long shots come in and so on. I liken the scouting services to touts. You can go with the racing forms picks or the local track pick sheet. You bet their picks, you generally wind up losing your ass. Coker did just that his last 3 or 4 years and the local press knew it and called him out on it. He did not do his homework and check the kids out like he should have. Again, kids usually get more stars from the services when the real experts, the Bamas, USC's and OSU's start offering, that is, unless they were an obvious choice like Big Will to begin with. I happen to think Dantonio and staff are starting to get the attention of the "touts" and they will place more value on an MSU offer than they have in the past and use it as a signal that the kid should get a bump up because MSU wants him.

Thanks. You just made my point.

I think your original point was "don't get too excited over a 5*, nor too discouraged over a 2*". This I disagree with, and I believe your subsequent post supports me. In your own words, "5*s are easily identified", & thus people should be excited about them because most agree they are very talented. They're a "favorite" in the horse racing vernacular.

The flaw in your horse racing analogy is the odds. In horse racing, you get a crappy payout for betting the favorite. In football, a superstar is a superstar regardless of star rating. 10 sacks are 10 sacks, regardless of whether a 5* or 2* gets them.

To continue your analogy, longshots are much more difficult to win with. Most are duds. Same with 2*s. Most do not pan out. However, in football, the payout is the same. 10 sacks are not more valuable because they came from a 2* vs. a 5*...unless your entire roster is 2*s.

I can see your reasoning on the 5 stars and sure I would think it would bode well for MSU if 5 or 6 of them signed in one year. My Miami example is still very valid and augurs against "irrational exuberance" over what would surely be a highly rated class.
Still not convinced? How about Texas the last couple of years? Oklahoma in 09? Plenty of stars and not much to show for it. Stars are great, until they aren't. Is it better to have more of them than less-usually yes, but don't bet the farm on them, they can let you down. Seems to me, MSU does have a few medium odds horses that have paid off quite nicely. It's all in the handicapping and the real money isn't made on the chalk, there is only so much high class horse flesh, the big payoffs come from the rest of the stable coming in the money. Your top picks can only run one race at a time. I think the racing analogy holds up fine.