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Does Ken Holland pull the plug on Mike Babcock sooner or later

  • TerryLove said...

    I think the real question is: Does Mike Illitch pull the plug on Ken Holland sooner or later?

    Obviously I know that is not happening, but at what point does yearly complacency at trade deadlines/UFA period become an issue to the rest of the franchise? Babcock has explicitly stated that he does not have certain types of players he would like to have, but nothing is ever done to appease him.

    never in a million years. Kenny H has proven himself over the years

    signature image signature image

    L.G.R.W.

    beal99

  • too old, too slow and not tough enough...its what happens when you stand pat with almost the same squad for years while everyone around you makes big moves and gets better. we just flat out dont have the guys it takes to get it done. regular season is fine because it's a different style of hockey than the playoffs. the guys we brought in to fill certain roles no longer fill those for whatever reason and its starting to show

    Big Fella

  • TerryLove said...

    I think the real question is: Does Mike Illitch pull the plug on Ken Holland sooner or later?

    Obviously I know that is not happening, but at what point does yearly complacency at trade deadlines/UFA period become an issue to the rest of the franchise? Babcock has explicitly stated that he does not have certain types of players he would like to have, but nothing is ever done to appease him.

    If there were any doubts about Holland, Steve Yzerman would have been given a million reasons to stay in Detroit.

    This post was edited by GRR Spartan on 4/18/2012 at 12:50 PM

    GRR Spartan

  • Big Fella said...

    too old, too slow and not tough enough

    no, not really, not at all.

    We're outhitting NSH, our average age isnt much more than NSH, and too slow? Only because of injury, but moreso that NSH (like PHX) plays this redic slow down game, trapping and shit.

    The fact of the matter is this. We're a good banged up team playing a good non banged up team and thats the edge.

    signature image signature image

    L.G.R.W.

    beal99

  • TerryLove said...

    I think the real question is: Does Mike Illitch pull the plug on Ken Holland sooner or later?

    Obviously I know that is not happening, but at what point does yearly complacency at trade deadlines/UFA period become an issue to the rest of the franchise? Babcock has explicitly stated that he does not have certain types of players he would like to have, but nothing is ever done to appease him.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time in years that the Wings have had actual cap space? Not sure that constitutes any kind of pattern.

    Who did you want at the deadline? Prices were high for "role" players such as Gaustad and Hall Gill (nice pieces, but I don't think they're worth the combination of current players and draft picks that they would've taken).

    I think this off-season will be telling. If Holland goes out and grabs Parise and Suter, it would be a significant reload. I trust him to get the job done. If we make it to next year and nothing is different except the Wings are one year older, then maybe we can talk about what to do with one of the best GMs in the NHL.

    Dr Draymond

  • Dr. Draymond said...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time in years that the Wings have had actual cap space? Not sure that constitutes any kind of pattern.

    Who did you want at the deadline? Prices were high for "role" players such as Gaustad and Hall Gill (nice pieces, but I don't think they're worth the combination of current players and draft picks that they would've taken).

    I think this off-season will be telling. If Holland goes out and grabs Parise and Suter, it would be a significant reload. I trust him to get the job done. If we make it to next year and nothing is different except the Wings are one year older, then maybe we can talk about what to do with one of the best GMs in the NHL.

    Gaustad is actually the perfect example. I think his play in this series is clearly indicative of why he would have been a good acquisition considering he's on an expiring contract and is obviously a huge upgrade over Emmerton at the 4th center spot. Not to mention physicality, face-off ability, and size... all of which are lacking on the Wings.

    TerryLove

  • Umm. Pekka Rinne is really, really good. The Wings have a solid team, but they've had the misfortune of running into the best goaltender in the world.

    In the Wings' losses, Rinne stopped 35 shots on goal, 41 shots on goal, and 40 shots on goal. The guy is playing out of his mind.

    Madison Spartan

  • TerryLove said...

    Not to mention physicality, face-off ability, and size... all of which are lacking on the Wings.

    That's the big issue, in my opinion. The Wings have excellent skilled players, who play a very similar style. It's attractive hockey, it's going to win a lot of games, and it fails to acknowledge that the NHL post-season is an entirely different animal. I think the Red Wings have an excellent front-office and coaching staff. They've got a core group that remains the envy of the league, but they need to look at the role players to have both a higher quality and a broader array of skills, including size, physicality, power-play ability, etc. The front-office needs to be a bit more aggressive this off-season as Nashville (however this series ends) is exposing some issues that were already being seen. We'll see what happens.......

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --Gandhi

    Heathens 87

  • beal99 said...

    The fact of the matter is this. We're a good banged up team playing a good non banged up team and thats the edge.

    The real fact of the matter is this: the Wings are not good enough to beat Nashville. Quit making excuses.

    Vegas Vic

  • TerryLove said...

    Gaustad is actually the perfect example. I think his play in this series is clearly indicative of why he would have been a good acquisition considering he's on an expiring contract and is obviously a huge upgrade over Emmerton at the 4th center spot. Not to mention physicality, face-off ability, and size... all of which are lacking on the Wings.

    I don't believe Gaustad was worth the first round draft pick that Nashville gave up to get him though. He'll be an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season. A first round pick for a 3-month rental is steep.

    Of course, the Wings traded away a first round pick for Quincey. Guess Holland thought at the time that a top-6 defensemen was more important than a rental 3rd or 4th line center. Looks like Quincey will be a restricted free agent at the end of this season.

    Dr Draymond

  • Dr. Draymond said...

    I don't believe Gaustad was worth the first round draft pick that Nashville gave up to get him though. He'll be an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season. A first round pick for a 3-month rental is steep.

    Of course, the Wings traded away a first round pick for Quincey. Guess Holland thought at the time that a top-6 defensemen was more important than a rental 3rd or 4th line center. Looks like Quincey will be a restricted free agent at the end of this season.

    With Lidstrom and Stuart most likely gone, we need all the defense we can get, even if its kyle quincey

    signature image signature image

    L.G.R.W.

    beal99

  • Dr. Draymond said...

    I don't believe Gaustad was worth the first round draft pick that Nashville gave up to get him though. He'll be an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season. A first round pick for a 3-month rental is steep.

    Of course, the Wings traded away a first round pick for Quincey. Guess Holland thought at the time that a top-6 defensemen was more important than a rental 3rd or 4th line center. Looks like Quincey will be a restricted free agent at the end of this season.

    Quincey has been above average! Q has made a lot of plays and is physical. Ericsson too is playing better than last year. Keep Q & replace Stuart and Lidsrrom w Suter and B Smth.

    Narwhal

  • beal99 said...

    With Lidstrom and Stuart most likely gone, we need all the defense we can get, even if its kyle quincey

    Narwhal said...

    Quincey has been above average! Q has made a lot of plays and is physical. Ericsson too is playing better than last year. Keep Q & replace Stuart and Lidsrrom w Suter and B Smth.

    Not hating on Quincey; think it's a good pickup if he's resigned at a reasonable rate. It may have come across that way as I was going to make the argument that the Wings should be hanging on to first round picks, then I remembered that Holland did trade ours away. lol

    Dr Draymond

  • Madison Spartan said...

    Umm. Pekka Rinne is really, really good. The Wings have a solid team, but they've had the misfortune of running into the best goaltender in the world.

    In the Wings' losses, Rinne stopped 35 shots on goal, 41 shots on goal, and 40 shots on goal. The guy is playing out of his mind.

    If he keeps playing at this level Nashville wins the cup and he hoists the Conn Smythe.

    Izzo Court

  • beal99 said...

    no, not really, not at all.

    We're outhitting NSH, our average age isnt much more than NSH, and too slow? Only because of injury, but moreso that NSH (like PHX) plays this redic slow down game, trapping and shit.

    The fact of the matter is this. We're a good banged up team playing a good non banged up team and thats the edge.

    i'm not talking hits for toughness, i'm talking players that want to go to the corners and grind and be physical, anyone can throw a check. we need guys that want to park in front of the net to score goals, someone that other teams have to fear if they get out of hand with our star players. the wings are the oldest team in the league and nashville is the youngest...if you think that's not a big difference then we'll never agree on anything. the reality is other teams have been getting better and we've stuck with a very similar team to that when we won the cup...they've just gotten older, slower, and less likely to be physical. NSH plays a slow game but when they've gotten breaks they've shown they are a much faster team than we are.

    This post was edited by Big Fella on 4/18/2012 at 3:44 PM

    Big Fella

  • Dr. Draymond said...

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time in years that the Wings have had actual cap space? Not sure that constitutes any kind of pattern.

    Who did you want at the deadline? Prices were high for "role" players such as Gaustad and Hall Gill (nice pieces, but I don't think they're worth the combination of current players and draft picks that they would've taken).

    I think this off-season will be telling. If Holland goes out and grabs Parise and Suter, it would be a significant reload. I trust him to get the job done. If we make it to next year and nothing is different except the Wings are one year older, then maybe we can talk about what to do with one of the best GMs in the NHL.

    No money left...prince fielder is using it all up

    signature image

    edmundfitz

  • GRR Spartan said...

    If there were any doubts about Holland, Steve Yzerman would have been given a million reasons to stay in Detroit.

    Looks like you have been vindicated GRR. Surprised Rocky hasn't banned you for not being a wings fanboy.

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

  • Izzo Court said...

    If he keeps playing at this level Nashville wins the cup and he hoists the Conn Smythe.

    I think you're absolutely right. The wings are beating the predators in every phase--except goaltending. And that's not a knock on Jimmy. Pekka is just that fucking good.

    Madison Spartan

  • This thread still cracks me up.

    I wonder what Marc Crawford is up to these days.

    MichState04

  • Fire Holland too. Bring back Stevie Y.

    duffy munn

  • Madison Spartan said...

    I think you're absolutely right. The wings are beating the predators in every phase--except goaltending. And that's not a knock on Jimmy. Pekka is just that fucking good.

    not true. the wings defensive zone play was abysmal and that's what cost them this series. sure we had plenty of shots but many of them were from terrible angles and with no screens. NSH executed their game plan to perfection keeping us to the outside and clearing the front of the net so shots were bad angle with no screen, any goaltender will stop those. we looked absolutely lost a majority of the time in our own end and NSH scored a lot of their goals off that. flat out the predators were faster, stronger, younger, and a better team. They looked like they wanted to win more than the wings did

    spartanfan25

  • Alright. I jumped on grr early in the season, but have slowly been joining his side over the past few months. I don't care if you have injuries. This has bee unacceptable. Ill give him one more year only because I know other teams would love to be in this position. But seriously he better make moves next post season.

    RIP tRCMB

    MR Universe19299

  • spartanfan25 said...

    not true. the wings defensive zone play was abysmal and that's what cost them this series. sure we had plenty of shots but many of them were from terrible angles and with no screens. NSH executed their game plan to perfection keeping us to the outside and clearing the front of the net so shots were bad angle with no screen, any goaltender will stop those. we looked absolutely lost a majority of the time in our own end and NSH scored a lot of their goals off that. flat out the predators were faster, stronger, younger, and a better team. They looked like they wanted to win more than the wings did

    This. The Wings defensive zone play has been a problem for the past few years. Turnovers in front of the net, sloppy puck handling in front of the net. And agree, Nashville looked hungrier and skated faster. IMO the Wings need a shake up as well as a shot of moviation. January winning streaks are like Wisconsin basketball and September Heismans. In the end they don't mean anything.

    Its five o'clock somewhere.

    Hematoma

  • Madison Spartan said...

    The wings are beating the predators in every phase--except goaltending. And that's not a knock on Jimmy. Pekka is just that fucking good.

    I'm sorry, but you don't lose a series 4:1, including losing two home games, by simply running into a hot goaltender. The Wings played into the Predators game-plan, which was to not worry about shots on goal but to worry about the quality of the shots. The Red Wings skate pretty and take their shots from the outside, meanwhile Rinne has a clear look at what's coming and the defense focuses on cleaning up rebounds and clearing the zone. Offensively, Nashville isn't going to dominate but they do punish mistakes.

    This "the Red Wings dominated but lost" mentality misses the point of that series - Nashville was clearly the better team. That sound you hear was the window of opportunity for a Stanley Cup slamming shut. And this isn't a Babcock coaching issue; it's the front office that needs to look at personnel, especially depth. When an aging team gets lapped by a younger one, that has to force reflection........

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --Gandhi

    Heathens 87

  • GRR COMPLETELY VINDICATED. LOL!!!!!lol

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan