MSU Red Cedar Message Board

They should have closed Red Cedar years ago. That isn't the issue. They are most likely going to have to close a second elementary school in the very near future (3-5 years) and they are keeping that projection in the dark because the neighborhood of the next closed school will raise hell that the bond they voted for and the updates they voted for have been rendered irrelevant. They know the vote would fail if they made that information public.

I came in just to make this point. Districts by law cannot fund operating expenses with bond money, they can only fund construction, renovations and technology upgrades. There are also restrictions against purchasing anything consumable with bond funds. So for technology upgrades for example, you cannot use bond money to buy spare lamps if you're installing projectors in classrooms. The previous poster who made the comment about relying on the bond to make payroll is off as well, they can't do it.

This looks like their bond application in case anyone is interested in some 'light' reading to see what the preliminary plans are...

http://school.elps.k12.mi.us/bond_2012/bond_application.pdf

Oh, and if people want to distill fact from fiction, a good place to start is here...

One of the major issues in this bond proposal is to put the fate of the district in the hands of the voters. If the bond fails, then they have to go back to the school board, who may or may not do what is best for the district or what the voters want.

This bond needs to pass. It keeps the current millage rate for schools (7), which is lower than all the other surrounding districts, and helps keep East Lansing competitive without raising tuition.

I'm fairly close to the issue, and if it doesn't pass, we're going to see a shit storm when several elementaries close, all at the mercy of the school board.

All of this anti-tax crap is the problem. This is an extension of a municipal bond, and if EL is going to stay competitive, they need to extend this bond now when interest rates are next to nothing. There's no guarantee that in 12 years that the rates won't be 10%+.

And no, voting it down is not going to get you a decrease in property taxes. It'll get you lower quality schools, which will further depress home values in the area, as people choose Haslett, Okemos and Bath instead of East Lansing.

LOL....sounds like Rick is so in your head!

I think the problem with EL schools are the teachers rather than the buildings. 2 years ago, 17 teachers retired in the district, only a few were hired. This inbalance leaves overpopulated classes and less individual teaching. In a sports perspective, you can build the best facilities like Dallas but, if your coach and players are lacking then your team is going to suffer. Fix the teacher issue EL then fix the buildings. I voted no.

So you basically did nothing to address your concern, and cemented the fact that it won't be fixed at all, because given the decreased borrowing power in 6 mos, they won't be able to do what you want.

Gotcha!

If that was a concern for the Glencairn parents, then they should have voiced those concerns and helped direct the bond issue toward consolidation.

I firmly agree that there are too many elementary schools, but the walkability is a concern to many folks who like the "feel."

Then you've got the Red Cedar parents voting no, because they think it's going to save Red Cedar. The school board has spoken on that issue. Red Cedar will close by 2016, bond or no bond.

I don't care if they close Glancairn. If the facility is out of date and the population does not justify it, then so be it. If I feel that way about the school two blocks from us, then I certainly feel the same way about Red Cedar.

If their solution does not address class size issues, then no way does it have my support. How would you feel if your child was not getting homework because the teacher was overwhelmed with amount of work in reviewing 28+ student's work. It is an issue and I expect we will be private sometime in the near future.

I believe it was Rima who had suggested going with a few larger and modern elementary schools that could share infrastructure costs, maximize technology, and better balance out class sizes.

Explain that one to me. The decreased borrowing power in 6 months is because a year of good property tax values will fall off the rolling five year window.

Under this logic, if I knew I was going to get a 50% cut in pay in six months, should I rush out and secure a mortgage on my current salary? I could sure borrow allot more money, but creating a helluva gap in the future. Are we not doing a valuation on property values that are not there? Do you have that much faith in property values coming back? I just got our tax statement in yesterday and it dropped quite a bit again.

Didn't we just experience this exact crash in the bank loan industry?

You have the situation reversed in you hypo. Instead you need to have a hypo where 5 years ago you got a raise of 5%, 4 years ago 3%, 3 years ago 2%, 2 years ago you were cut by 4% and last year you were cut 4%. Then you have to look back at those 5 years, average those out and project that average for the next 30 years. Do you really expect that your wages will only increase by 0.4% each year for the next thirty because you had a bad 3 years? Then,with the rolling average projection, even if you see a 2% raise this year, it is smaller than the 5% that will drop off from 5 years ago. Does that mean you really had a better outlook for your future income before that 5% dropped off? Of course not, your future earning potential is the same. That formula is not a crystal ball, it is just an artificial construct.

Same thing with the property tax values....do you know of any time in East Lansing's history when there was an average of only 0.15% growth in property values for 30+ years? In the last 28 years (including the current recession, the dot com bust and the 1990 recession) the average was 4.10%.

caspper:

respect your thoughts. at the end of the day, none of the bond/closure stuff mattered after I found out class sizes would be under the same rules and systems. my one child is two years younger than our oldest and had twice as much homework and attention. 100% due to the older's giant class size. unfair system that they need to address, but do not with this bond.

"They're not gonna run the school the way I want it run, so I'm voting no" is what this argument amounts to. Good thing you know so much about running schools. Why haven't they put you in charge yet?