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Football recruiting: MSU's avg. commit rating compared

  • I'd rather win the fall than in February.

    signature image

    Hank Moody

  • Tanfan said...

    Exactly. Two years ago we were closing on those kids. The fanboys spin it and downvote out of frustration. I'll be their punching bag because I'm not Afraid to tell it like it is.

    I tell it like it is.

    NigelUno

  • Hematoma said...

    At no point as Dantonio ever raked in 4 and 5 stars. I think he had one year with like 8 4 stars and maybe 1 5 star (can't remember what Gholston was). The program has pretty much been built with 3 stars and a few 4 stars. Now, everyone redshirts. One example of the difference now is that Gholston had to play his frosh year, vs Thomas redshirted. Predictably, Gholston got the typical shoulder injury that younger players get. Thomas has 4 years in front of him. In terms of ratings, there is virtually no difference between a high 3 star and a low 4 star.

    Tanny obviously doesn't trust in our coaching staff to develop talent because he is living off the one recruiting class you are talking about and still expects that to be the case every year so he basically shits all over the recruiting classes that have came in since. He is just like a SCUMMER that cares more about stars than actual winning because until Michigan beats MSU that's all they have.

    I'll take winning over everything else and I believe in this staff's ability to develop players will continue to win us games.

    Being called a sunshine blower is not insulting to me and I'm proud to be one.

    SpartyFever

  • VargMan said...

    No one is complaining about the # of commits we have...however, reasonable people have expressed concern with how many Plan A recruits, recruits atop our recruiting board, have chosen to commit to rival schools. The reason being...Dantonio's ability to evaluate talent is superior and second to none; and the idea of players that Dantonio has deemed as being the most desirable going to our rivals is concerning.

    And we know who then plan A guys are? We know what the recruiting board looks like how?

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • http://m.freep.com/colleges/article?a=2012120313067&f=2604

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

  • Hank Moody said...

    I'd rather win the fall than in February.

    Agreed. But Michigan is now running the same pro style offense and we are now competing for the same players and losing.

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

  • Tanfan said...

    http://m.freep.com/colleges/article?a=2012120313067&f=2604

    We already have 2 RBs committed for 2013. We're done there.

    F Michigan

    AASpartan ●

  • Tanfan said...

    I'm not a defeatist like the fanboy segment. I don't just accept the fact that MSU can't compete with the schools that we were competing with until all the coaching changes occurred. WE WERE landing those 4 stars and occasional difference maker 5 stars before Hoke came in and out recruited MD on just about every single player who wasn't an MSU legacy recruit. Those players we were landing (past tense) are going to be graduating in a few years and replaced by players that are not at the same level. AA decided to call me out in this thread, so I am going to respond. That's my opinion on this topic. That opinion is shared by many and deflecting and excuse making is not winning votes, it just makes you look like a ...........................................................................................................................fanboy.

    You got mentioned because you are obsessed about rankings probably more than anyone else on this board.

    The point that I made, and that you continue to ignore for your own rhetoric, is that this is going to be a low rated class due to us not having a lot of scholarships to give out. Someone who can't look at the big picture in recruiting is going to see that we have a team ranking in the 50-60 range and assume that we're having a terrible recruiting year.

    F Michigan

    AASpartan ●

  • Tanfan said...

    Agreed. But Michigan is now running the same pro style offense and we are now competing for the same players and losing.

    Tanfan's maybe hit something here. It's obvious we should just scrap the program and fire Dantonio. The future looks horrible for us now that Michigan is recruiting pro style offensive studs. I'm never going to another game again.

    God, it sucks being a Spartan. Is it too late to get into Michigan?

    signature image signature image signature image

    DWags

  • Tanfan said...

    Agreed. But Michigan is now running the same pro style offense and we are now competing for the same players and losing.

    Staying on offense...which players are we losing out on? We lost on 2 OL targets, but given that each school can only take about 4 OL each year, we just have to work a little harder outside our region. If that's the point, I agree. There's plenty of talent out there. And by the way, I'm pretty confident we're tapping into some great areas (FL, GA and now maybe TX). But we are scoring big on offensive skill positions (QB, RB and WR) and I see no "losing" happening. I think you are reacting to the big OL haul UM had this Spring. But yesterday we got a verbal from 3-star (and 89 rated, so like a single percentage point below 4-star for those scoring at home) OL who has Power-O written all over him. How can you not think that is "winning" [Chuck Sheen ref. not intentional]

    On defense, I have no concerns at all. The Pittman experience was awful, but MD is the best D-evaluator and developer of talent on that side in the B1G.

    Tupes

  • Jeez.... I just wanted to point out an interesting stat in my OP. I didn't want to start a Tanfishing thread.

    fail

    Final Countdown

  • Final Countdown said...

    Yes, it's still early. But for everybody whining about the "slow start" to recruiting......... here are 247's average rating per commit:

    Among schools with 5 or more commits: 11th in the country Among schools with 4 or more commits: 14th in the country Among schools with 3 or more commits: 18th in the country

    MD is getting some quality players. coachd

    FWIW, MSU's average is 87.20, which would make them 21st by star average in 2012 (i.e., when all things are said and done).

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Tanfan said...

    Exactly. Two years ago we were closing on those kids. The fanboys spin it and downvote out of frustration. I'll be their punching bag because I'm not Afraid to tell it like it is.

    2 years ago you were complaining about MSU "settling" on 3-star recruits for the 2011 class (Closed with 4-star Clemons, 3-stars Fonoti, Calhoun and Caesar). The year before that, you were bitching about "settling" for "MAC recruits" Nico Palazeti, Le'Veon Bell and Darqueze Dennard late in the process.

    Last year you were pretty much o.k. when State closed with 4-stars Cox and Madaris.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • VargMan said...

    No one is complaining about the # of commits we have...however, reasonable people have expressed concern with how many Plan A recruits, recruits atop our recruiting board, have chosen to commit to rival schools. The reason being...Dantonio's ability to evaluate talent is superior and second to none; and the idea of players that Dantonio has deemed as being the most desirable going to our rivals is concerning.

    Anybody who has an offer 11 months before national signing day is a plan A guy.

    wingfanjim ●

  • AASpartan said...

    I'm saying that our class rank will be low because we will have only 15 kids. Not that they won't be highly ranked kids.

    Even if our class is small in size it would still be nice to have a decent percentage of those recruits be 4 or 5 star recruits. Thats all Tanfan is saying. We should be at a point now where 1/3 of our recruits are 4 or 5 star but we are not there yet. We were in 09 and 10 with 15 4/5 stars cumulative in those 2 classes. Our rivals (scUM, OSU and ND) are getting over 50% 4/5 stars. We had 3 out of 18 last year and just 2 in the 2011 class. We have 1 so far in this class. Thats 6 total in 11/12/13 classes. scUM landed 6 in one day a couple weeks ago including the top 2 OLmen on our board.

    This post was edited by 82msuspartan on 3/14/2012 at 10:15 AM

    82msuspartan

  • AASpartan said...

    I'm saying that our class rank will be low because we will have only 15 kids. Not that they won't be highly ranked kids.

    Exactly.

    The end game is a national championship, right? Every NC in the BCS era has been won by a team with at least 1 top 10 recruiting class in their program (similar to the McDonald AA theory in the NCAA tournament).

    So, how does MSU get a top 10 recruiting class?

    I've said it over on the Duff, and probably on here, but out of all the recruiting powers, there are only 3 in the country that aren't situated in a state that's a hotbed for talent: Oklahoma, ND and Michigan. Oklahoma is right next to TX, and ND/UM are the 2 winningest programs in CFB history (as we've been reminded ad nauseum). The rest of the best recruiters? Let's see . . .

    USC - is in LA and has access to CA talent
    LSU - only school in Louisiana
    UGA - main school in Georgia
    FSU, Miami (Fl), Florida - duh
    Texas - duh
    Ohio State - duh
    Alabama - Bama is a decent state for talent, and is situated between Louisiana and GA. Oh, and they claim more NCs than anyone.

    MSU had 1 nationally acclaimed class, and that was 2009. Perhaps not coincidentally, 2009 was the last year that the State of MI produced double digit 4-stars (11). MSU took 8 of them, along with 4-star Barrent from Iowa and 4-star Klatt from OH.

    By and large, your recruiting is a product of your local talent base.

    The only way to overcome that is to win, and win a lot. I'm not talking about 1 or 2 years. I'm talking about at least a decade of sustained success.

    Look at Oregon. Pretty strong program now, right? Here's how their recruiting has gone since 2002 (as far as Rivals goes back). Keep in mind that the 2002 and 2003 classes were coming the heels of Oregon's back to back Conf. titles in 2000 and 2001, in the 6th and 7th year of Mike Bellotti, who was bowl eligible each of his first 9 years.

    2002: 49th
    2003: 26th
    2004: 12th (30 man class though, keep in mind)
    2005: 28th
    2006: 49th
    2007: 11th
    2008: 19th
    2009: 32nd (Bellotti's last class)
    2010: 13th
    2011: 9th (NC appearance)
    2012: 16th

    It wasn't until his 8th year that he landed a top 15 class and he never landed a top 10. It took the winningest coach in Oregon history (14 year tenure), plus a good successor (who's tactics are now being strongly scrutinized by the NCAA) to advance Oregon's recruiting to national significance.

    MSU needs at least a decade of sustained success to being to recruit in the upper levels and that had better include a BCS bowl appearance or two.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • 82msuspartan said...

    Even if our class is small in size it would still be nice to have a decent percentage of those recruits be 4 or 5 star recruits. Thats all Tanfan is saying. We should be at a point now where 1/3 of our recruits are 4 or 5 star but we are not there yet. We were in 09 and 10 with 15 4/5 stars cumulative in those 2 classes. Our rivals (scUM, OSU and ND) are getting over 50% 4/5 stars. We had 3 out of 18 last year and just 2 in the 2011 class. We have 1 so far in this class. Thats 6 total in 11/12/13 classes. scUM landed 6 in one day a couple weeks ago including the top 2 OLmen on our board.

    FWIW, MSU landed 4 4-stars last year. Cox and Burbridge were consensus, Madaris was a 4-star on Scout and 247 and Lyles a 4-star on Scout and Rivals. O'Connor was a 4-star on 247 and McGowan a 4-star on ESPN. Every service but Rivals had MSU at 4 4-stars, and you could argue that State brought in 6/18 players with "4-star talent".

    Going back to 2011, Donovan Clark, Onaje Milelr and Joel Heath were both 4-stars via Scout, while RJ Williamson was a 4-star on 247. You could argue that MSU brought in 6 players with 4-star talent that year.

    In 2010, if you'd like to go back that far, tack on Mylan Hicks (Scout) to Gholston, Burkland, Boisture, Bullough and Lewis.

    I feel that if MSU is bringing in 4-6 "4-star caliber" players per class, they'll be fine as far as competing for conf. titles. Even if UM/tOSU are recruiting better than MSU, State doesn't play tOSU after 2012 for awhile, and UM is just 1 game on the conf. schedule. Given that UM has to play tOSU every year, they could be saddled with a 6-2 record if they trip up vs. say Nebraska, or a cross-divisional game with PSU/WIsky. As long as MSU can keep pace/exceed the Iowa/Wisky/Northwestern/Minnesota/Illinois group, they should be positioned to make multiple CCG appearances in the next decade.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • CVSpartan said...

    Some Spartan fans are absolutely delusional. They think MD is going to beat Alabama, LSU, OSU, etc... for 4 or 5 star recruits on a regular basis and at least strongly compete if not win the national title annually.

    Hey Nancies I am enjoying 2 11 win seasons in a row! We just beat Georgia in a New Year's day bowl game where the GA fans represented about 2/3 of the total people attending.

    MSU would have went to the Rose bowl the last 2 years had the rules from 2009 still been in effect. Even so they came about as close to going as it was possible to go within closing the deal.

    I went to MSU when Muddy Waters was the fricking coach! Compared to him MD is an absolute Knute Rockne. Got over yourselves and enjoy the ride. coachd

    This pretty much says it. It's gonna take years of sustained success for MSU to catch up to the elite schools. Coach D will get us there, but it won't be as fast as the Nancies want, and they'll be unbearable in the meantime.

    spartan80

  • Tanfan said...

    http://m.freep.com/colleges/article?a=2012120313067&f=2604

    Remind me of how your a MSU fan and not some Wolverine fan that comes on here to piss people off?
    -1 all day for you Tanfan... just go somewhere else with your negative shit.
    Do you want me to post a link to the UM page or is it already your homepage?

    Boo this Man!

    This post was edited by spartan 4show on 3/14/2012 at 10:48 AM

    attachment
    signature image

    ~We're all armchair coaches & 20 yrs of mediocrity before Dantonio has turned us all into pathetic sociopaths who know no joy or excitement~

    spartan 4show

  • Slow start? LOL. I'm actually concerned we're committing too many too early.

    dagomike

  • Tanfan said...

    Agreed. But Michigan is now running the same pro style offense and we are now competing for the same players and losing.

    Take a look at the below charts and tell me where MSU has not improved under MD. I will give you the 2012 "Line" class, but otherwise MSU is solid. The talent gap between UM and MSU has never been smaller.

    Skill: WR, RB, DB
    Power: LB, TE, FB
    Line: OL, DL, DE
    QB: QB

    attachmentattachment

    Carl_N

  • I am going to rest my hat on one thing that I strongly believe. Call me a homer, fan boy (I'm old so I wish someone would call me a boy) sunshine blower, kool aide drinker (is that how you spell kool aide?) what ever cliche' anyone wants to use. Here is the deal: Mark Dantonio is the best football coach in the Big Ten. Brady Hoke needs to have better players than MSU JUST TO BREAK EVEN. Hoke is using training wheels with that D-Coordinator. Also, screw Urban Meyer. Not sure if he's overrated or if I just don't like him, but screw him either way. I'm betting he will flame out (or flake out) like he did last time. He can spell O-H-I-O though.

    Its five o'clock somewhere.

    Hematoma

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Look at Oregon. Pretty strong program now, right? Here's how their recruiting has gone since 2002 (as far as Rivals goes back). Keep in mind that the 2002 and 2003 classes were coming the heels of Oregon's back to back Conf. titles in 2000 and 2001, in the 6th and 7th year of Mike Bellotti, who was bowl eligible each of his first 9 years.

    Good breakdown. One thing that should be mentioned about Oregon that keeps them a notch ahead of other schools like MSU, Ok. State, V-Tech that are knocking on the door, is that they are a GENIUS marketing machine. No one else even comes close. Phil Knight has created a "what will they do next?" excitement that works. Other schools tried, but no one does it like Oregon (for polar opposite, see 2011 Maryland). They also decided to create a high-octane, up-tempo video-game like offense that makes for great TV, and thus of course you are now seeing them on TV a lot. I think this made-for-TV team definitely impacts the political polling process.

    For us, we nailed it with the bronze unis last year, and I hope we roll out more special pro-combat gear for either the ND or UM game. The scoreboard enhancement is a big deal for us in recruiting, and let's hope further facility upgrades follow suit.

    Its not going to be enough to say "hey, we follwed the Wisconsin model to build our program" -- that's over. Now, we have a great opportunity to create excitement around a punishing defense, pro offense ("Wide Receiver U") and a real brotherhood mentality that could be an effective sales pitch to recruits.

    Tupes

  • Tupes said...

    Good breakdown. One thing that should be mentioned about Oregon that keeps them a notch ahead of other schools like MSU, Ok. State, V-Tech that are knocking on the door, is that they are a GENIUS marketing machine. No one else even comes close. Phil Knight has created a "what will they do next?" excitement that works. Other schools tried, but no one does it like Oregon (for polar opposite, see 2011 Maryland). They also decided to create a high-octane, up-tempo video-game like offense that makes for great TV, and thus of course you are now seeing them on TV a lot. I think this made-for-TV team definitely impacts the political polling process.

    For us, we nailed it with the bronze unis last year, and I hope we roll out more special pro-combat gear for either the ND or UM game. The scoreboard enhancement is a big deal for us in recruiting, and let's hope further facility upgrades follow suit.

    Its not going to be enough to say "hey, we follwed the Wisconsin model to build our program" -- that's over. Now, we have a great opportunity to create excitement around a punishing defense, pro offense ("Wide Receiver U") and a real brotherhood mentality that could be an effective sales pitch to recruits.

    State recruits better than Wisconsin and is probably slightly ahead of Iowa overall. MSU is a notch below PSU/Nebraska, though not by enough to make future match-ups one-sided (compared to say, PSU in 2008 or so).

    Also, I'm not conceding that UM is going to be a powerhouse right away, if at all. I watched Charlie Weiss go to back to back BCS bowls his first 2 years, reel in the #2 rated class nationally . . . then faceplant.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • spartan 4show said...

    Remind me of how your a MSU fan and not some Wolverine fan that comes on here to piss people off?
    -1 all day for you Tanfan... just go somewhere else with your negative shit.
    Do you want me to post a link to the UM page or is it already your homepage?

    Boo this Man!

    Lol

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

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