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Future of the Big Ten

  • It seems the general perception of the Big Ten (outside RCMB, of course) is that now that UM has Hoke and OSU has Meyer, the Big Ten is going to revert back to Big 2, Little 10. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I don't see this as being the case at all. I think going forward what we're going to see is a different tier structure, for about the next five years, at least. Anything beyond that is too difficult to portend. That tier structure will look something like this:

    Tier 1 (in no particular order)
    OSU
    MSU
    UM
    Wisconsin

    Tier 2
    Nebraska
    Iowa
    Penn State

    Tier 3
    Northwestern
    Illinois
    Purdue

    Tier 4
    Indiana
    Minnesota

    Now, any of the tier 2 teams can obviously rise up in any given year and compete for a Big 10 championship, but I think all fall short of tier 1 at this point in time. Nebraska, in my opinion, has the best chance to join the top tier, but I'm not sold on Bo Pelini as a head coach. If NU brings in a great coaching staff, then the sky is the limit for that program. Too many question marks surrounding the future of PSU's program right now and Iowa has proven to be too inconsistent under Ferentz.

    Anyway, this "general perception" seems to be largely based on this idea that because UM and OSU are recruiting well, that means MSU and UW are magically going to disappear and become irrelevant. To me, one thing does not necessarily affect the other. In other words, yes, it's actually quite possible that UM and MSU can be good...wait for it...AT THE SAME TIME! Crazy, I know!

    The success of any program comes down to, first and foremost, good coaching. Both MSU and UW (as much as it pains me to admit) have that right now. MSU always had a program that was capable of succeeding -- good resources, good fan base, good recruiting territory -- all they ever needed was a competent coaching staff. The proof is in the pudding. Bad coaches (Bobby Williams, John L) = bad football. Good coaches (Saban, Dantonio) = good football. So unless Dantonio and staff all wake up one day with amnesia and completely forget how to evaluate talent, develop talent, and coach during games, then I've got news for the rest of Big Ten fans and the media...MSU ain't going anywhere. Same can be said of Wisconsin.

    Obviously MSU, and even UW, still have much to prove on the national level. But the foundation is in place for both programs, and it's evident they will be competing with UM and OSU on a yearly basis in this league for championships.

    Thoughts? I would definitely like to hear from fans of other teams.

    "RCMB: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainry." - some dude from MgoBlog

    JEK

  • Anybody who thinks the B1G is going to return to the Big 2 and Little 10 doesn't realize there isn't a scholarship limit and the Big 2 Little 8 basically ceased to exist in 1981.

    Join Date: 06-12-2001 RCMB vBull #32 # Total Posts: 35,866

    Floyd Robertson ●

  • Does anyone honestly think between Nebraska, MSU and Wisky that there is going to be a Big 2, Little 10?

    signature image

    12177 Post before moving here. 10/29/11 will live forever in our hearts (plus 50 votes in the last 3 hours)

    tJYD ●

  • Post it on the blue board and watch meltdown. popcorn

    signature image signature image

    I am not a doctor

    craigcamp37

  • tJYD said...

    Does anyone honestly think between Nebraska, MSU and Wisky that there is going to be a Big 2, Little 10?

    That's what I've been noticing, yes. People think the "resurgence" of OSU under Urban Meyer, god's gift to football, and UM, cuz Hoke recruited 97 NFL players in 2 weeks, will leave everyone else in the dust for years to come.

    "RCMB: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainry." - some dude from MgoBlog

    JEK

  • craigcamp37 said...

    Post it on the blue board and watch meltdown. popcorn

    Post it!

    signature image

    12177 Post before moving here. 10/29/11 will live forever in our hearts (plus 50 votes in the last 3 hours)

    tJYD ●

  • JEK said...

    It seems the general perception of the Big Ten (outside RCMB, of course) is that now that UM has Hoke and OSU has Meyer, the Big Ten is going to revert back to Big 2, Little 10. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I don't see this as being the case at all. I think going forward what we're going to see is a different tier structure, for about the next five years, at least. Anything beyond that is too difficult to portend. That tier structure will look something like this:

    Tier 1 (in no particular order) OSU MSU UM Wisconsin

    Tier 2 Nebraska Iowa Penn State

    Tier 3 Northwestern Illinois Purdue

    Tier 4 Indiana Minnesota

    Now, any of the tier 2 teams can obviously rise up in any given year and compete for a Big 10 championship, but I think all fall short of tier 1 at this point in time. Nebraska, in my opinion, has the best chance to join the top tier, but I'm not sold on Bo Pelini as a head coach. If NU brings in a great coaching staff, then the sky is the limit for that program. Too many question marks surrounding the future of PSU's program right now and Iowa has proven to be too inconsistent under Ferentz.

    Anyway, this "general perception" seems to be largely based on this idea that because UM and OSU are recruiting well, that means MSU and UW are magically going to disappear and become irrelevant. To me, one thing does not necessarily affect the other. In other words, yes, it's actually quite possible that UM and MSU can be good...wait for it...AT THE SAME TIME! Crazy, I know!

    The success of any program comes down to, first and foremost, good coaching. Both MSU and UW (as much as it pains me to admit) have that right now. MSU always had a program that was capable of succeeding -- good resources, good fan base, good recruiting territory -- all they ever needed was a competent coaching staff. The proof is in the pudding. Bad coaches (Bobby Williams, John L) = bad football. Good coaches (Saban, Dantonio) = good football. So unless Dantonio and staff all wake up one day with amnesia and completely forget how to evaluate talent, develop talent, and coach during games, then I've got news for the rest of Big Ten fans and the media...MSU ain't going anywhere. Same can be said of Wisconsin.

    Obviously MSU, and even UW, still have much to prove on the national level. But the foundation is in place for both programs, and it's evident they will be competing with UM and OSU on a yearly basis in this league for championships.

    Thoughts? I would definitely like to hear from fans of other teams.

    Two very important elements in my opinion to be a tier 1 school. 1) Good coaching including staff stability. 2) Recruiting--This is what has kept Iowa and Wisc from really getting to tier 1 and staying there. They seem to be able to rise up on 1 and 2 year intervals but slip back. Iowa and Wisc recruiting is pretty good and they both have coachign stability but they do not get as many impact recruits that the top programs get around the country. I would put MSU in this category as well. Good coaching with stablity and good recruiting but room for improvement in that area. Nebraska and PSU have the ability to recruit with UM and OSU and have done it before. Look at what PSU is doing this year with a new coach, but they do have the advantage of being in a talent rich state with little recruiting competition. Over the long haul and taking a historical perspective I think you have. On a year to year basis teams move can move up or down a teir but ultimately recruiting and coaching will dictate the order. Illinois is the most underachieving program over the last 40 years given the talent base in Illinois. But a lot of that has to do with coaching instability and facilities.

    Tier 1 OSU, UM, Neb and PSU
    Tier 2 MSU, Iowa, Wisc
    Tier 3 Ill, Pur, NW
    Tier 4 Minny and IU.

    82msuspartan

  • It could very well turn out that way. Us and Wisconsin have established ourselves as major players for years to come. OSU and UM are looking like they *could* get back to being OSU and UM, but it's not a lock. It makes for a good story for the national and regional media to build them up as being "back," but recruiting rankings and momentum mean little compared to getting it done on the field.

    OSU is in a holding pattern this year with post-season ineligibility and building for what could be a big 2013, but they have a tough schedule getting us, Wisconsin and PSU on the road, as well as Nebraska and UM in interdivision play. There is little reason to doubt that Meyer won't have them as a major national player soon given his track record, the OSU brand name, and a talent like Braxton Miller to spearhead the attack for the next 3 years.

    I need to see more out of Hoke and UM this year showing that they can win tough games on the road before I really believe the hype that the national media loves to put into them. 11-2 looks great on paper, but there wasn't as much substance to that gaudy record as their fans like to think. That's not news to us. Win 3 out of 5 against Bama, at ND, MSU, at Nebraska, at OSU and I will believe that they are "back." Those are 5 very losable games. Also watch out for Purdue on the road. This is a big year with a lot of personnel turnover on the way in 2013.

    Jimbo Slice

  • God, I hate offseasons. I think we're running out of topics here.

    signature image

    ashamanAJSV

  • Posted on the blue board...just for the meltage factor.

    "RCMB: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainry." - some dude from MgoBlog

    JEK

  • ashamanAJSV said...

    God, I hate offseasons. I think we're running out of topics here.

    Seems like a legitimate sports discussion to me. shrug

    Guess I should've posted a thread asking how you wipe your ass.

    "RCMB: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainry." - some dude from MgoBlog

    JEK

  • JEK said...

    Seems like a legitimate sports discussion to me. shrug

    Guess I should've posted a thread asking how you wipe your ass.

    Left-handed, seated but leaning forward (cancer be damned, I'm not standing for this), folded not bunched, finish with a hygiene wipe such as Prep H or its generic, give the kids a looksy, then flush.

    Thanks for asking. biggrin

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

    tGreenWay ●

  • JEK said...

    Seems like a legitimate sports discussion to me. shrug

    Guess I should've posted a thread asking how you wipe your ass.

    Haha, that wasn't a criticism of you at all. Just saying that you can only talk so much about how the two-deep looks, how our coaching staff measures up, predictions for the next year or couple of years, et cetera, before the games actually start. The end of August can't get here fast enough.

    To answer your question legitimately, I'm not sure anyone outside of the national pundits actually believe a Little 2 era is coming back, but I do marginally worry about keeping up with those two schools after the next 3 or 4 years, especially if coach D retires. Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Penn State certainly aren't going anywhere either.

    signature image

    ashamanAJSV

  • Right now it is the Big 2 and little 10, MSU and Wisconsin are obviously the top 2 programs and everyone is chasing them.

    Johnny2x2x ●

  • JEK said...

    Thoughts? I would definitely like to hear from fans of other teams.

    SEC fans don't give a crap about the BigTen.

    NigelUno

  • Floyd Robertson said...

    Anybody who thinks the B1G is going to return to the Big 2 and Little 10 doesn't realize there isn't a scholarship limit and the Big 2 Little 8 basically ceased to exist in 1981.

    Add in talent parity. Even though Ohio is the best state talent-wise, OSU can no longer recruit the Top 15 players in Ohio, and 5 from other states and be in the Top 2 ever year. This is something that has been progressing over the last few years as talent development has gotten more standardized. MSU has thrived on picking up guys who didn't get OSU offers but were top 40 guys in Ohio (Worthy, Ringer, Hoyer, etc.)

    Batesianmimicry

  • +1 for an interesting post.

    -1 for misusing "portend."

    Here's the definition:

    por·tend/pôrˈtend/
    Verb:

    1. Be a sign or warning that (something, esp. something momentous or calamitous) is likely to happen.
    2. Be a signal of.

    This post was edited by red_cedar on 7/8/2012 at 2:14 PM

    attachment

    Draymond Green, Magic Johnson, and Oscar Robertson are the only players to have two triple-doubles in the NCAA Tournament.

    red_cedar

  • Johnny2x2x said...

    Right now it is the Big 2 and little 10, MSU and Wisconsin are obviously the top 2 programs and everyone is chasing them.

    Let's not kid ourselves, OSU is in the group too. They had one bad season coming off NCAA violations but have pretty much dominated the B1G for the past decade.

    MSUManiac13 ●

  • Holy sheeit! The blue board is a cesspool of idiocy. But I am fighting the good fight. Join me, comrades.

    "RCMB: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainry." - some dude from MgoBlog

    JEK

  • 85 scholarships killed the Big 2 - everyone else staus quo and it isn't comimg back no matter how much scarlet and gray or piss yellow and blue smoke some fans want to pump up your ass.

    GRR Spartan

  • GRR Spartan said...

    85 scholarships killed the Big 2 - everyone else staus quo and it isn't comimg back no matter how much scarlet and gray or piss yellow and blue smoke some fans want to pump up your ass.

    Also don't forget about the impact of the big ten network at leveling the playing field.

    Now all of the teams have more money to hire and retain coaches and improve football facilities. Also more games are televised which eliminates the TV monopoly teams like UM, OSU, and ND had (and PSU to some degree).

    The big ten little two is dead. They still have the most buil in advantages but the advantages are much smaller.

    xwing

  • Floyd Robertson said...

    Anybody who thinks the B1G is going to return to the Big 2 and Little 10 doesn't realize there isn't a scholarship limit and the Big 2 Little 8 basically ceased to exist in 1981.

    This.

    3-4 teams at the top that rotate over the years. MSU, OSU, SCUM, Iowa, Neb PSU and Wiscy are all going to compete to be in that top 3-4 teams year in and year out that can win the conference. Occasionally, NW will sneak in.

    The end result is going to be a very competitive conference.

    lars

  • I'm not sure why everyone gives Hoke credit for being UM's savor before it happens. It was a good season but they don't have the track record of anyone else considered in the top tier.

    SpartanPride204

  • Spartan-Pride said...

    I'm not sure why everyone gives Hoke credit for being UM's savor before it happens. It was a good season but they don't have the track record of anyone else considered in the top tier.

    What I don't get is people not understanding that Hoke isn't even a gameday coach, he doesn't wear a headset, doesn't call plays, off or def, and relies on his coords for everything, he's basically a glorified manager and a master at cliches. That ship is going down. Compared to Coach D he isn't even in the same universe.

    BleedGreen4ever

  • I think I pissed some people off at the Blue Board with this comment:

    So when Brady Hoke has his first (heart attack) at the Rangers game before the Cowboys Classic after downing 3 Boomsticks, what would you say then?

    signature image

    12177 Post before moving here. 10/29/11 will live forever in our hearts (plus 50 votes in the last 3 hours)

    tJYD ●

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