MSU Red Cedar Message Board

Good list. I would remove Frederick and add Patton. I know that sounds cliche, but he virtually wrote the book on armored warfare as well as his generalship of the 3rd army was legendary. The 3rd Army's joint forces (air, armor, infantry, artillery) was unprecendented at that time.

Well let's see...
Joan of Arc was a woman...in a world where there are no or few women...and she kicked a lot more ass than men who didn't have the societal "handicaps" she had. That's got to account for something.

Timur destroyed and conquered the Golden Horde, the Ottoman Empire, Mamluk and Delhi.

Salidin turned away the third crusade and dominated pretty much the entire middle east in the 10th century. Many believe he also invented the idea of Chivalry.

Suvorov made Russia a power. Wrote the book on military strategy of his day (The Science of Victory late 1700's) contributed many badass saying such as "what is hard in training becomes easy in battle...", never lost a battle in long illustrious career.

Jan Zizka pretty much invented the Tank (or the idea if the tank) in the 1400's. Dominated Eastern Europe in his day and was well ahead of his time. Also one of 6 generals who history remembers as one who never lost a battle.

John Churchill's victories sat 2 English Kings (James and William of Orange) and he dominated the War of Spanish Sucession (which many consider the real first World War) ensured the Bourbon Dynasty did not merge with Spain making France the largest power in Europe/world.

Wellesley was England's answer to Napoleon...and he whooped Napoleon at Waterloo.

I'd put Suvorov, Timur, Zizka in the top 10...the others are debatable but close.

So I guess my top ten, in any order you choose, would include:

Ghengis Kahn,
Alexander the Great,
Alexander Suvorov
Jan Zizka
Scipio Africanus
Kahlid Ibn al Walid

(the six who never lost a battle...though Lucious Sulla of Rome is also listed as well..not sure on him)

Timur
Haninbal
Belisarius
John Churchill

Edit... I should probably put Napoleon in there somewhere, shouldn't I...

It is hard to compare different circumstances of leadership, but at a tactical level Lettow-Vorbeke and Guderian would be hard to argue with (I think of Patton as Guderian Lite). If you are thinking about revolutionary generals Mao, Ho Chi Minh, and Washington need credit.

Zhukov was effective, but as a general I rank him as very good rather than great. I would replace him with von Moltke, Franco-Prussian war or von Manstein-brilliant in attack (invasion of France), and on defense (stopping the Russians at Kharkov).

George Washington. He was a politician, administrator, soldier and general. He defeated the British army, which at the time was the finest army in the world.

Do you include Adrimals count becaue Francis Drake and John Paul Jones deserve noms

My order would go:
Ghengis Khan
Charlemagne
Alexander the Great
Hannibal
Caesar
George Washinton
MacArthur
Joan of Arc
Patton (just because he challenged Erwin Rommel to a tank duel. A panzer would destroy him, but he did it any way)
Hitler( Worst person EVER to live, but like it or not he implicated "blitzkrieg" into WWII. He conquered eastern Europe so fast. If it wasn't for us all of Europe would be speaking German. Again, I hate the guy, but he knew how to conquer nations.)

The alliance with France, Spain and the Netherlands was key to Washington's victories in the field (e.g. Yorktown). Nobody took the colonies seriously as a world military power immediately after the revolution.

Washington's brilliance was clearest in retreat/defeat (e.g. Valley Forge.)

This thread is stupid.

To be considered one of the great captains of world history you must innovate, conquer and be a successful politician and diplomat. Also, the stakes in world history must be absolutely critical.
I'll only stick to Western commanders. The list gets a lot longer and harder if we include great Eastern commanders.

chronologically:
Greeks:
Themistocles
Epaminondas
Phillip II
Alexander the Great

Romans:
Scipio
Gaius Marius
Cesar
Constantine the Great

Early Middle Ages:
Attila
Belisarius
Clovis
Charlemagne
Godfrey of Bouillon
Edward III
Henry V
John of Austria

Late Middle Ages/Renaissance/and later:
Cortez
Pizarro
Foix
John III Sobieski
Prince Eugene
Gustavus Adolphus
Charles XII
Michiel de Ruyter
Cromwell
Vauban
Fredrick the Great
Duke of Marlboro
Napoleon
Nelson
US Grant
Moltke
Rommel
Nimitz

...

Did you honestly take the time to write all that out? Wow.

Alexander wasn't Greek

General Badass (pronounced Bud-os) won me (and Army) several natty titles in EA-NCAA football.