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Hoke:"If we don't win a championship next year, we failed."

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    I want to be optimistic since Michigan has 9 returning starters back on the D, but the reality is that the 9 returning starters were part of one of the worst defenses Michigan has ever fielded. The should be better, but not championship better.

    Yup. The D won't be better, but they will be "slightly less horrid." I'll take 85th in the nation. That's all I ask.

    ...beyond a stretch of Maryland pines there's a river without a name.

    Foot B Dude2001

  • AASpartan said...

    That's because spring practices for all schools don't start for another month.

    So he's just going off of what some dude made up on a blog? I thought it was strange since mid-march is the earliest teams start.

    It'll be interesting to watch UM and ND this year. Good lord do I love having a stable program!

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • SpartanRocky said...

    So he's just going off of what some dude made up on a blog? I thought it was strange since mid-march is the earliest teams start.

    It'll be interesting to watch UM and ND this year. Good lord do I love having a stable program!

    It's Michigan's official website, but just weird since they won't be able to report for a while. Maybe it's end of season guesses as to who is going to be there in the spring.

    F Michigan

    AASpartan

  • SpartanRocky said...

    So he's just going off of what some dude made up on a blog? I thought it was strange since mid-march is the earliest teams start.

    It'll be interesting to watch UM and ND this year. Good lord do I love having a stable program!

    Good Lord do I love college football! I'm cautiously optimistic about the Hoke administration. I'd been interminably negative the last three years. I relish a possible return to positivity.

    ...beyond a stretch of Maryland pines there's a river without a name.

    Foot B Dude2001

  • Foot B. Dude said...

    Yup. The D won't be better, but they will be "slightly less horrid." I'll take 85th in the nation. That's all I ask.

    Your best post ever! Been there, thought that... what a nightmare our D was in the mid 00s.... and yet had Seth Mitchell been healthy, we'd have been a top 40 D instead of 85.

    As for those new numbers on the o-line- no 300 pounders in the middle, and a 6'8 guy at only 283? Wow, that is a small, physically weak line that will not hold up in b10 play. And while I understand hokie telling shoelaces he won't take that beating again, how is that going to happen with that line running a pro-style O?

    mentalstate

  • Foot B. Dude said...

    Good Lord do I love college football! I'm cautiously optimistic about the Hoke administration. I'd been interminably negative the last three years. I relish a possible return to positivity.

    As do I. Play defense and run the ball. Teach Denard to put some touch on his passes to get the ball over the linebackers without completely overthrowing everybody. Find somebody, ANYBODY, who can tackle a guy in space. And don't worry so much about wins right away. Tall order, but not impossible.

    y2kMgrad

  • Foot B. Dude said...

    Good Lord do I love college football! I'm cautiously optimistic about the Hoke administration. I'd been interminably negative the last three years. I relish a possible return to positivity.

    12-0 or bust!

    Just kidding. I want to see what you guys look like in the spring, and against real competition. Quite frankly I just want to beat you guys for the 4th straight time and get our 2nd straight Big 10 title ;)

    MSU, Nebraska and Iowa will all contend for our division; UM has quite the hill to climb, likely to be picked 4th in its own division.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Looking at UMich's schedule and making some assumptions:

    @ NW - Persa will run all over that defense if they let him.
    @ MSU - Pretty sure we got the talent and coaching to take them down.

    then they have a rough stretch for the last 4 games:

    @ Iowa - Rebuilding, but dangerous.
    @ Illinois - Scheelhaase has another year under his belt and is a pretty good player.
    Nebraska - Good luck.
    Ohio State - Yeah that's not happening.

    Out of those 6 games I see them winning against NW, Iowa, and Illinois providing some luck goes their way. I think MSU, Nebraska, and OSU go to town on them.

    Macks

  • Foot B. Dude said...

    Good Lord do I love college football! I'm cautiously optimistic about the Hoke administration. I'd been interminably negative the last three years. I relish a possible return to positivity.

    talk

    Borias

  • I'm sure Michigan's defense will improve this fall. Still, part of me will wax nostalgic about a more chaotic era, when said defense might let up 60+ points and take a game to triple overtime.

    Rilian

  • y2kMgrad said...

    As do I. Play defense and run the ball. Teach Denard to put some touch on his passes to get the ball over the linebackers without completely overthrowing everybody. Find somebody, ANYBODY, who can tackle a guy in space. And don't worry so much about wins right away. Tall order, but not impossible.

    As a UM fan I don't hate, I appreciate your attitude. It's hard to switch schemes. You've got a fair amount of talent, in fact, more "raw" talent (1 5*, 35 4*) than anyone in the conference save tOSU and equal talent with PSU and Nebraska (33 4* for PSU, 32 for Nebraska) . MSU (1 5*, 19 4*) is next , followed by Iowa (13 4*). I stopped counting after the top 6.

    Anyways, out of the top 6 in terms of "raw" talent, UM is likeliest to suffer a hard season because their talent hasn't played in the schemes and there's been some bad fundamental teaching that will take some time to get rooted out. Any bowl this season is a victory for Hoke. I hope you UM fans realize that it takes a lot of time to undo the hours of muscle memory that it's taken to ingrain bad technique. I know as an MSU fan, that it can be painful to watch.

    For the Spartans, I don't want anything less than an 8 win season considering the schedule (pretty tough) because I want the program to show some growth and consistency. 9 wins + a bowl win to make it 10 would be ideal. I'd like to see a very solid recruiting class, in the 6-10 4* range, considering our recent conference championship.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • y2kMgrad said...

    As do I. Play defense and run the ball. Teach Denard to put some touch on his passes to get the ball over the linebackers without completely overthrowing everybody. Find somebody, ANYBODY, who can tackle a guy in space. And don't worry so much about wins right away. Tall order, but not impossible.

    Just an FYI, you can't teach a person who's been a QB for years how to put "touch" on the ball if he doesn't already know how. That is akin to teaching a college basketball player how to "shoot."

    mentalstate

  • Macks said...

    Looking at UMich's schedule and making some assumptions:

    @ NW - Persa will run all over that defense if they let him. @ MSU - Pretty sure we got the talent and coaching to take them down.

    then they have a rough stretch for the last 4 games:

    @ Iowa - Rebuilding, but dangerous. @ Illinois - Scheelhaase has another year under his belt and is a pretty good player. Nebraska - Good luck. Ohio State - Yeah that's not happening.

    Out of those 6 games I see them winning against NW, Iowa, and Illinois providing some luck goes their way. I think MSU, Nebraska, and OSU go to town on them.

    How do you see them winning those games? NW, with Persa, was one of the top teams in the b10. at Ill with that Qb. And at Iowa, really?

    mentalstate

  • Michigan is not THAT bad, their defense does suck. Northwestern will be favorites no doubt but I think UMiich can pull off the upset.
    Iowa will be in a major rebuilding year after losing DJK, Stanzi, Clayborn, Ballard, Klug and more. They choked against Minnesota, and again, I expect Michigan to have a decent shot.

    They might not be ideal chances but compared to their chances vs. Nebraska and OSU, and for that matter MSU, i'd take it.

    Macks

  • The Hokester

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by The Gruff on 2/8/2011 at 11:02 PM

    signature image

    The Gruff

  • The Gruff said...

    We won't win a championship next year with 6 freshman. (Dawson, Kearney, Anderson, Trice & Redshirts Gauna + Byrd) Combined with two mediocre big men. And hopefully Korie makes it back.

    How do you think the MSU Quidditch team will do?

    Posting member of tRCMB since 1997. It is ALWAYS a great day to be a Spartan!!!!

    Raytooth Morgan

  • Big Ten Title? Yeah right, Brady Joke.

    spbullet

  • y2kMgrad said...

    I'll be happy with 8 wins.

    me too as that is all I expect next year

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

  • SpartanRocky said...

    As a UM fan I don't hate, I appreciate your attitude. It's hard to switch schemes. You've got a fair amount of talent, in fact, more "raw" talent (1 5*, 35 4*) than anyone in the conference save tOSU and equal talent with PSU and Nebraska (33 4* for PSU, 32 for Nebraska) . MSU (1 5*, 19 4*) is next , followed by Iowa (13 4*). I stopped counting after the top 6.

    Anyways, out of the top 6 in terms of "raw" talent, UM is likeliest to suffer a hard season because their talent hasn't played in the schemes and there's been some bad fundamental teaching that will take some time to get rooted out. Any bowl this season is a victory for Hoke. I hope you UM fans realize that it takes a lot of time to undo the hours of muscle memory that it's taken to ingrain bad technique. I know as an MSU fan, that it can be painful to watch.

    For the Spartans, I don't want anything less than an 8 win season considering the schedule (pretty tough) because I want the program to show some growth and consistency. 9 wins + a bowl win to make it 10 would be ideal. I'd like to see a very solid recruiting class, in the 6-10 4* range, considering our recent conference championship.

    I agree about UM having a tough year. I'm hoping for 8 wins but it will probably be more like 6 or 7.

    btw you're the most in depth poster on here when it comes to football and you know a lot about the Big Ten.

    y2kMgrad

  • y2kMgrad said...

    I agree about UM having a tough year. I'm hoping for 8 wins but it will probably be more like 6 or 7.

    btw you're the most in depth poster on here when it comes to football and you know a lot about the Big Ten.

    Thanks man, like I said, I have no problem talking football with UM fans as long as we both accept that a) It's almost impossible not to be a little biased and b) with "a" in mind, we keep it civil.

    Side note: Holy )*@$&)$*@%. How do you have 1200+ posts already?!

    Anways, I'd expect a 4-3 to be a big boost to Mike Martin. . . .if they can find another viable DT. Ash, Black, etc. are all young or unproven, and "Big Will" hasn't been much other than "Big". I wonder how Roh will respond being a DE full time. Also, you're going to need to develop some depth at DE; not sure how you look past Van Bergan and Roh.

    At LB . . . . you lose 2 very experienced guys in Mouton and Ezeh, though I'm not sure that Ezeh is that much of a loss. Getting rid of the "Spinner" position should help, but I think Rich Rod recruited towards the 3-3-5, with 2 true LBs, so your LB depth is going to be a bit thin. You should, by contrast, have a surplus of DBs, but attrition hit you hard there. You'll play at least half of your DB recruits this year out of necessity, which sucks from a depth perspective (ideally all frosh get the RS, regardless of position).

    On O, I'd have a real concern about your OL. Probably not the first unit, but you have 8 schollie OL that aren't true frosh this fall (maybe 9, I just counted the recruiting classes and who I know isn't there anymore) so depth is a legit concern. I have no idea what shoelaces is going to look like in a mostly prostyle set, if for no other reason than his height makes it hard to see over the OL if he takes the snap under center.

    Your K has no where to go but up, so expect an improvement there.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • I thought Hoke took the Michigan job?

    GuruMaharaj

  • I did want to talk about the schedule next year in terms of divisional opponents, particularly Iowa.

    I really think Iowa takes a step back. They tend to go in cycles; 3 years up, 3 years down. They went from bad in Ferentz's first 3 years 99, 00, 01(1-10, 3-8, 6-6) to good his next 3, 02-04 ( 3 straight 10 + win seasons), then down again (6-7 Ws from 05-07), then up (9 Ws in 2008, 11 in 2009), but last year seemed the end of that "up" cycle (8 Ws including a bowl win), with the graduation of studs like Clayborn, Klug, Ballard, etc.

    Iowa, like Wisky, is built on kids RS Sophs or older and can rarely "reload" in terms of talent. They had a very bad recruiting class in 2009 ( 2nd worst in the conference, average stars of 2.5) and those kids will be the RS Sophs expected to fill in. Those teams tend to not be able to sustain high level of success, because the talent waxes and wanes with their recruiting from one year to the next, they'll have talent gaps that are harder to overcome. Iowa started 4 4* on their front 4 last year and they're all gone. I know that stars don't always matter, but Clayborn, Bulaga, Hunter, etc. were all high level recruits expected to contribute greatly. For all the talk of Iowa doing more with less, they usually hit on their elite recruits; the 2005 class ranked 8th nationally and those guys were 5th year SRs during Iowa's 11-2 season in 2009. Then they left and Iowa took a step back.

    Iowa is likely to have issues up front on D and O; with a new QB, that's always an issue. They play very sound, fundamental D, but can be out-talented. With MSU, Nebraska and UM all having more talent than Iowa, this could end up being the start of some very mediocre seasons in Iowa City.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • Linebacker needs to make the biggest improvement. Ezeh was not good, at all. And Mouton, although active, lacked LB instincts. Demens showed flashes of ability but he just had surgery supposedly, and will miss spring ball.

    Offensively, I'm less concerned about the line, based solely on the fact that they have game experience. My biggest concern is finding legitimate running backs who can stand up to the rigors of an entire season.

    signature image signature image signature image

    MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13

    Due51

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Thanks man, like I said, I have no problem talking football with UM fans as long as we both accept that a) It's almost impossible not to be a little biased and b) with "a" in mind, we keep it civil.

    Side note: Holy )*@$&)$*@%. How do you have 1200+ posts already?!

    Anways, I'd expect a 4-3 to be a big boost to Mike Martin. . . .if they can find another viable DT. Ash, Black, etc. are all young or unproven, and "Big Will" hasn't been much other than "Big". I wonder how Roh will respond being a DE full time. Also, you're going to need to develop some depth at DE; not sure how you look past Van Bergan and Roh.

    At LB . . . . you lose 2 very experienced guys in Mouton and Ezeh, though I'm not sure that Ezeh is that much of a loss. Getting rid of the "Spinner" position should help, but I think Rich Rod recruited towards the 3-3-5, with 2 true LBs, so your LB depth is going to be a bit thin. You should, by contrast, have a surplus of DBs, but attrition hit you hard there. You'll play at least half of your DB recruits this year out of necessity, which sucks from a depth perspective (ideally all frosh get the RS, regardless of position).

    On O, I'd have a real concern about your OL. Probably not the first unit, but you have 8 schollie OL that aren't true frosh this fall (maybe 9, I just counted the recruiting classes and who I know isn't there anymore) so depth is a legit concern. I have no idea what shoelaces is going to look like in a mostly prostyle set, if for no other reason than his height makes it hard to see over the OL if he takes the snap under center.

    Your K has no where to go but up, so expect an improvement there.

    I expect a Dline of Roh and Black at DE with Martin and Van Bergen at DT.

    xxmgobluexx

  • Due51 said...

    Linebacker needs to make the biggest improvement. Ezeh was not good, at all. And Mouton, although active, lacked LB instincts. Demens showed flashes of ability but he just had surgery supposedly, and will miss spring ball.

    Offensively, I'm less concerned about the line, based solely on the fact that they have game experience. My biggest concern is finding legitimate running backs who can stand up to the rigors of an entire season.

    Really, it's whether your DL can hold up at the point of attack; no matter how good your LBs are, it doesn't matter if O-linemen are getting to the second level.

    Martin and Van Bergan give you a legit DE and a legit DT. Roh played his hybrid position well, but I don't know if he can put his hand in the dirt full time (just because he hasn't had to do it yet). Assuming he's good (and he is a solid player), you still need a 2nd DT to make the 4-3 work, plus good LBs.

    The issue with transitioning from the 3-3-5 is that the 3-3-5 is supposed to make hte LB's job EASIER by not having them make reads. It's a "see ball, get ball" D for the 2nd level. Now they're going to have to learn to read the OL, etc., something they haven't done in a year or two (or since HS for the younger players) and there is going to be a learning curve there.

    Saving grace is that a secondary behaves about the same in any scheme, so there's no learning curve there other than "not sucking".

    I'd expect to lose to ND, MSU, Nebraska and tOSU; ND because of their passing, MSU because it's at EL and we just have a better team, Nebraska because of their D and tOSU because of the overall talent edge. The rest range from sure Ws (MAC schools) to toss-ups (Iowa, NU, etc.).

    Just a Spartan fan's 2 cents.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky