MSU Red Cedar Message Board

Quote from 'ask meta..". went to school near Pittsburgh and now live in Ohio. Both at school and here in Columbus, I notice people leaving off "to be" in sentences. This needs fixed, that neads cleaned, those need washed. What's the deal here?

This sounds just terrible to my ears but I can't explain exactly what is grammatically incorrect about it. How can I explain, gramatically, what is wrong with this construction? Also, where did this originate?
posted by lohmannn to writing & language (45 answers total) 14 users marked this as a favorite"

I saw this in Toledo and southern Illinois. It is truly a dialect of American English

And more..."Wow I'm glad you asked this, I have come very close to asking this myself in the past. My wife and a friend are both from Indiana and they both say this - it tends to bother me much more than it should, for some reason.

"The cat needs brushed"..

NO, the cat NEEDS TO BE BRUSHED, damnit!

Odd though that while this seems to stretch from PA to IN, I never heard anyone say this when I lived in Chicago. I suppose they have their own colloquialisms to worry about. :-)

(And on a side note, my uncle who lives just outside of Seattle claims to live in "Warshington".)
posted by MarkLark at 10:10 AM on February 21, 2008"

I can confirm that this is classic Pittsburghese.

Each time, the Broncos have won, and beat a perennial powerhouse in the process.

They’ll try to make it four in a row Aug. 31.

“This will be our toughest opener we’ve had,” Boise State coach Chris Petersen said.
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This will be a great game for sure. I was more hung up on the lines above. It's fun to read some really positive views of the Spartans from someone outside the conference and not in a fluff piece.

Yinz are crazy.

Language tends to simplify over time. The language that eventually mutated into English through all the conquering of the British Isles used to be worse than Latin for complexity. Humans are lazy and that favors simple language. The use of a helping verb as a conjuction of verbs is one of the most complex structures in the English language. You have three verbs in two simple conjugations, as well as third verb in an infinitive hanging around. Conditional II Progressive is the only verb structure I can think of that is more complex (He would have been speaking).

Eliminating the helping verb simplifies the structure into present + past. The helping verb doesn't add meaning, all it does is make the language flow better to our ears, but obviously that is something of upbringing rather than basic human nature.

Such a thoughtful analysis of sentence structure would ordinarily be out of place in a comparative analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of an MSU football opponent in a typical tRCMB analysis thread, but given the opening, you pulled it off nicely. +1 for you sir!

I get the sense that many are giving BSU too much credit and MSU not enough. BSU is a fine football team and is well coached, but until Houston Nutt showed up they were a very mediocre program. I lived in Boise during the Skip Hall years and the team was very inconsistent, much like MSU until Mark Dantonio showed up.

BSU has a great many question marks on offense, more so than MSU. Even if making the argument that both teams will be starting relatively inexperienced quarterbacks, MSU's projected starter has been in the program for three years while BSU's have at the most have been in two. I'll show my bias and say MSU with Maxwell holds an edge for the fact that he has been throwing to most of the projected starting receivers for several seasons. I'll venture a guess and say that they have developed a certain degree of chemistry, with each receiver and Maxwell understanding and knowing each others strength and weakness.

Why so much love being shown towards BSU's OL? Aren't they having to replace a center as well as an OT? Remember how MSU struggled last year trying to break in three new offensive linemen? They didn't start to really gel until well past the mid point of the season. This year MSU only has to replace one lineman, while the other four have already developed a rapport and know each others idiosyncrasies. BSU in my estimation will struggle about the same or slightly lesser degree with their OL as they adjust to each other and get a feel for how each will interact.

Running back has to go to MSU. Bell, proven. Caper, proven. BSU, total unknowns. I predict that MSU will have more that 170 yards rushing.

Receivers I'll give the edge to BSU because their offense is predicated on the pass and the rotation allows for multiple players to see time. What is potentially the major neutralizing factor is MSU's experienced and talented secondary. If this match up can be held to a draw it favors MSU.

Defensively there is no comparison in my opinion. MSU has more talented and experienced starters, better depth, and they come at opponents in waves. From the front four to the linebackers and into the secondary, MSU is loaded. This unit didn't achieve their high NCAA ranking last year because they didn't face potent offenses, they did so by doing just that and shutting them down. September Heisman, shut down. Wilson and Ball, they had to really work for their yards. Persa and Colter, neutralized. Murray and the UGA offense, pedestrian. Even MSU's losses could not be attributed to the performance of the defense as they held ND to less total yards than MSU, and Nebraska's offense continually enjoyed the benefit of a short field.

Sorry, but I just don't see this as being a close game if MSU plays to the level they are capable of. MSU has as much of a chip on their shoulders as BSU. Dantonio and MSU wants to be considered for BCS mention and you don't get that by losing the home opener with the amount of talent this team possesses.

I think a lot of the journalistic ineptitude in Idaho, Wyoming, and the Dakotas has to do with the simple fact that there really isn't one good (or even decent) journalism school between Minneapolis and Pullman, Wash.

Except State executes pretty darn well on D. Watch MSU - Wisconsin on ESPN right now. You seem to think that MSU is going just show up and play sloppy because they're assuming that they'll be the Broncos.

Gotta remember that MSU isn't UGA, Oregon, Va. Tech or OK. State isn't a "perennial powerhouse" that's full of itself, and consequently inclined to overlook Boise.

If anything, the "Boise" name is bigger than the Spartans. Quite frankly, I think the target is on your backs.

Edit: You just lost your starting C and your #3 WR. That's going to hurt your team's ability to execute.

Excellent point, MSU has a huge chip on its shoulder, looking to prove itself. Two years running, screwed out of the bowl we should have been, and come into this year with our best complete team in forever...and are still picked to finish behind um in our division, despite um having major issues at several positions and no depth on their lines.

Beating BSU in convincing fashion would be a big, big deal for MSU.

Let me introduce you to the executioner.

I am glad you shared that you played because for a minute it sounded like you didn't know what you were talking about. BSU is in the Mountain West - not the WAC. Heads up- next year they will be in the Big East.

Would MSU have beaten the ACC champ and the PAC-10 champs in addition to the SEC East champ over the last few years? Maybe....maybe not.

I sure hope you're right and we blow them out.