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Izzo overcoaches at the end of halves...

  • tig ol bitties19581 said...

    Makes sense. I'm not smart enough to know why they don't work. It is just frustrating that I can't recall getting an easy basket out of an inbounds play in big10 play this season

    Nix had a three foot layup that he missed on the prior possession but got fouled. That was drawn up out of a timeout.

    Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.

    rookmsu ●

  • You have to call timeout when your 7 footer is trying to dribble 80 mph through traffic. If the ball was in Appling's hands maybe not. But this board was going nuts on Matta when he didn't call timeout when Craft was trying to race up the court with even less time at game end against Michigan.

    WBill19542 ●

  • WBill19542 said...

    You have to call timeout when your 7 footer is trying to dribble 80 mph through traffic. If the ball was in Appling's hands maybe not. But this board was going nuts on Matta when he didn't call timeout when Craft was trying to race up the court with even less time at game end against Michigan.

    On this board people do not realize hindsight is 20/20

    signature image signature image

    Itz Pstein21607

  • WBill19542 said...

    You have to call timeout when your 7 footer is trying to dribble 80 mph through traffic. If the ball was in Appling's hands maybe not.

    Didn't Appling race to the half court mark to call time out when the ball was stolen from him? I'm just stating a fact. shrug

    signature image signature image signature image

    Snake Plissken ●

  • Snake Plissken said...

    Didn't Appling race to the half court mark to call time out when the ball was stolen from him? I'm just stating a fact. shrug

    Different possession, different circumstances. With 30 seconds left when Appling got the ball, there was plenty of time to stop the action and draw up a play. What was it, 10 seconds when Payne got the rebound and started dribbling up the court? Had Appling been in position to get a quick pass from Payne after he snagged the board, I doubt Izzo would have called a timeout as Keith raced down the court for the winning shot.

    This post was edited by J T on 3/4/2013 at 8:35 PM

    SeeGreen: "Ahhh.. whenever optimusprimal19 speaks, good things have happened."

    J T

  • WBill19542 said...

    You have to call timeout when your 7 footer is trying to dribble 80 mph through traffic. If the ball was in Appling's hands maybe not. But this board was going nuts on Matta when he didn't call timeout when Craft was trying to race up the court with even less time at game end against Michigan.

    And those people going nuts are not bright. Craft had a layup; he got butchered. Everyone knows the officials fucked OSU on the no call. But no one cares because its OSU. I hate Craft but wanted him to go to the FT line, and CHOKE. He earned the right to shoot FTs because of the decision to go right to the hoop to tie it up.
    MSU, on the other hand, didn't even get a fucking shot. Gross.

    bozorules

  • Izzo was basically saying he trusted his play calling out of a timeout more than the team's fast break. He was very wrong. Not to mention Burke got that steal on Appling because he was looking at Izzo. Sometimes he just needs to let the kids play.

    ROtown Sparty

  • ROtown Sparty said...

    Izzo was basically saying he trusted his play calling out of a timeout more than the team's fast break. He was very wrong. Not to mention Burke got that steal on Appling because he was looking at Izzo. Sometimes he just needs to let the kids play.

    But you can't blame that steal on Izzo. Keith just got careless and I'm sure he'd accept 100% of the blame for that. There's nothing wrong with calling a time out with the final possession and over 20 seconds to play.

    This post was edited by J T on 3/5/2013 at 7:13 AM

    SeeGreen: "Ahhh.. whenever optimusprimal19 speaks, good things have happened."

    J T

  • Sooo, have we all reached the conclusion that Izzo is a bad coach and we should scrap the program...

    Sincerely,

    All the whiners...

    Nίκη για MSU

    Bender

  • ROtown Sparty said...

    Izzo was basically saying he trusted his play calling out of a timeout more than the team's fast break. He was very wrong. Not to mention Burke got that steal on Appling because he was looking at Izzo. Sometimes he just needs to let the kids play.

    If Payne dribbling through traffic is "his team's fast break" then I do too. I agree that MSU has a better chance to score without the timeout. But a F/C who rarely puts the ball on the floor is dribbling up the court and he decided to call a timeout. That's the example we're gonna use to prove an overcoaching hypothesis?

    http://www.silentlapse.com

    Thrillho

  • Bender said...

    Sooo, have we all reached the conclusion that Izzo is a bad coach and we should scrap the program...

    Sincerely,

    All the whiners...

    I don't think anyone in this thread has said that. Jesus Christ, don't get your panties in a twist.

    I love everything coach Izzo does except his use of timeouts. Doesn't regularly use them while other teams are on runs, and almost always uses them at the end of halves--and, usually, the result of both of those is pretty bad.

    Even Tom Izzo isn't perfect.

    This post was edited by arfabe16 on 3/5/2013 at 8:14 AM

    arfabe16 ●

  • Thrillho said...

    If Payne dribbling through traffic is "his team's fast break" then I do too. I agree that MSU has a better chance to score without the timeout. But a F/C who rarely puts the ball on the floor is dribbling up the court and he decided to call a timeout. That's the example we're gonna use to prove an overcoaching hypothesis?

    The only issue I see with the Payne play is why Appling or Harris didn't go get the ball from him.

    Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.

    rookmsu ●

  • J T said...

    But you can't blame that steal on Izzo. Keith just got careless and I'm sure he'd accept 100% of the blame for that. There's nothing wrong with calling a time out with the final possession and over 20 seconds to play.

    I don't blame it on Izzo, but (in retrospect at least) the timeout would have been better used on the previous play if he wanted to talk to Appling and tell him not to turn the ball over, instead of while he's being guarded.

    And fuck it. Payne was one of the one ones who showed up to play, put the ball in his hands and see what happens. I'm not saying make him point guard, but let him lead the team. Appling wasn't.

    ROtown Sparty

  • ROtown Sparty said...

    I don't blame it on Izzo, but (in retrospect at least) the timeout would have been better used on the previous play if he wanted to talk to Appling and tell him not to turn the ball over, instead of while he's being guarded.

    And fuck it. Payne was one of the one ones who showed up to play, put the ball in his hands and see what happens. I'm not saying make him point guard, but let him lead the team. Appling wasn't.

    Appling was largely responsible for getting the team back in the game in the first place. But sure, let's let Payne go coast to coast against a team guaranteed to jump in front of him and flop.

    Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.

    rookmsu ●

  • rookmsu said...

    Appling was largely responsible for getting the team back in the game in the first place. But sure, let's let Payne go coast to coast against a team guaranteed to jump in front of him and flop.

    Well in theory we'd want to run a play instead of letting Payne dribble down the court, but that didn't work out too well either. So either call a play where you're confident you can get a shot off or don't call a timeout in the first place. Appling played okay, but we still need more from him.

    I love Izzo, whether it was a mistake or not it just didn't happen. Oh well, it's over. Let's just move on.

    ROtown Sparty

  • rookmsu said...

    The only issue I see with the Payne play is why Appling or Harris didn't go get the ball from him.

    because harris realized holy shit they are all watching payne and let his basketball instincts take over...I can run the wing and I'll be wide open for an easy bucket. Payne let his instincts take over too, he was just trying to get it to half court but he read the situation and realized denzel was wide open. Every single player let their instincts take over and we would have gotten a great look out of it. Izzo just likes to be in control, nothing wrong with that but it may cost you here and there, it may help you here and there too. It's just a crap shoot.

    Big Fella

  • Big Fella said...

    because harris realized holy shit they are all watching payne and let his basketball instincts take over...I can run the wing and I'll be wide open for an easy bucket. Payne let his instincts take over too, he was just trying to get it to half court but he read the situation and realized denzel was wide open. Every single player let their instincts take over and we would have gotten a great look out of it. Izzo just likes to be in control, nothing wrong with that but it may cost you here and there, it may help you here and there too. It's just a crap shoot.

    Instincts? One of the first things you're taught in basketball as a big guy, unless you are Magic or LeBron, is that you find an outlet who is a guard.

    Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.

    rookmsu ●

  • Big Fella said...

    because harris realized holy shit they are all watching payne and let his basketball instincts take over...I can run the wing and I'll be wide open for an easy bucket. Payne let his instincts take over too, he was just trying to get it to half court but he read the situation and realized denzel was wide open. Every single player let their instincts take over and we would have gotten a great look out of it. Izzo just likes to be in control, nothing wrong with that but it may cost you here and there, it may help you here and there too. It's just a crap shoot.

    Well said.

    Optiback

  • rookmsu said...

    Instincts? One of the first things you're taught in basketball as a big guy, unless you are Magic or LeBron, is that you find an outlet who is a guard.

    there's a different need for every situation. payne has proven with some of his drive and dunks from outside the key that he can handle the ball better than most big guys can. You can't live by 1 blanket rule for every situation in basketball. there has to be a reaction and read to every situation. There wasn't much time left he thought instead of going backwards and wasting time, getting it to half and calling a timeout in a hurry was best. He saw everyone surrounding him and a wide open guy running the floor so he made an instinct/read play. No matter what you think he should have done, what he did was just react and make a great play.

    Big Fella

  • arfabe16 said...

    I don't think anyone in this thread has said that. Jesus Christ, don't get your panties in a twist.

    I love everything coach Izzo does except his use of timeouts. Doesn't regularly use them while other teams are on runs, and almost always uses them at the end of halves--and, usually, the result of both of those is pretty bad.

    Even Tom Izzo isn't perfect.

    Almost every time he uses a time out at the end of the half or end of a game it is pretty bad? Pretty bad? Really???? So, missing a shot is bad? Very rarely, if at all prior to this UM game, has MSU not gotten a shot attempt off after a TO. Not getting a shot is bad. Missing a shot is not bad, nor a bad use of a timeout. Not running the play your coach called for is bad.

    So, you want Izzo to be like every single coach in America and use timeouts when teams go on runs. He often opts not to, because he wants his team to learn how to function without the security blanket of a TO. That is EXACTLY why his teams are always so mentally tough in March. They don't panic and freak out at the first sign of trouble (ie a run by the other team). But, in case you forgot, he did use a TO during the UM run on Sunday. However, I am sure you didn't realize that, and are only referencing the OSU game.

    I am confused. You bitch about him calling timeouts at end of games and halves, but want him to use more during the game? Why? If it the result of his timeouts are "usually pretty bad", then why do you want him to call even more?

    Izzo isn't perfect. He will be the first to admit it. But, there is not 1 coach I will take over him in game situations or Xs and Os in the COUNTRY. He is that good. There may be better recruiters than him in the game, but only because he is not willing to circumvent or blatantly ignore the rules that are in place. He is a once in a lifetime type coach, and you are going to nitpick his use of timeouts? WTF are you?

    If you want to complain about something, complain about the execution of the plays out of the timeouts.

    Iknowmorethanu

  • Iknowmorethanu said...

    Almost every time he uses a time out at the end of the half or end of a game it is pretty bad? Pretty bad? Really???? So, missing a shot is bad? Very rarely, if at all prior to this UM game, has MSU not gotten a shot attempt off after a TO. Not getting a shot is bad. Missing a shot is not bad, nor a bad use of a timeout. Not running the play your coach called for is bad.

    So, you want Izzo to be like every single coach in America and use timeouts when teams go on runs. He often opts not to, because he wants his team to learn how to function without the security blanket of a TO. That is EXACTLY why his teams are always so mentally tough in March. They don't panic and freak out at the first sign of trouble (ie a run by the other team). But, in case you forgot, he did use a TO during the UM run on Sunday. However, I am sure you didn't realize that, and are only referencing the OSU game.

    I am confused. You bitch about him calling timeouts at end of games and halves, but want him to use more during the game? Why? If it the result of his timeouts are "usually pretty bad", then why do you want him to call even more?

    Izzo isn't perfect. He will be the first to admit it. But, there is not 1 coach I will take over him in game situations or Xs and Os in the COUNTRY. He is that good. There may be better recruiters than him in the game, but only because he is not willing to circumvent or blatantly ignore the rules that are in place. He is a once in a lifetime type coach, and you are going to nitpick his use of timeouts? WTF are you?

    If you want to complain about something, complain about the execution of the plays out of the timeouts.

    clap

    SeeGreen: "Ahhh.. whenever optimusprimal19 speaks, good things have happened."

    J T

  • Izzo has now watched the tape, and agrees he shouldn't have called a timeout. What were you all saying?

    Joe Rexrode ‏@joerexrode
    Izzo starts presser saying after watching film, realizes MSU may have had numbers when he called TO. At time, he just saw Payne in crowd.

    Jim Comparoni ‏@JimComparoni
    izzo begins the press conference by saying after watching the film that he apologizes for quickly dismissing Sunday's question time out

    Izzo: "As I watched the film I saw where we might have had numbers, but when I watched Payne with 3 Michigan guys around him I didn't want to lose the ball."

    This post was edited by arfabe16 on 3/5/2013 at 2:40 PM

    arfabe16 ●

  • arfabe16 said...

    Izzo has now watched the tape, and agrees he shouldn't have called a timeout. What were you all saying?

    Joe Rexrode ‏@joerexrode
    Izzo starts presser saying after watching film, realizes MSU may have had numbers when he called TO. At time, he just saw Payne in crowd.

    Jim Comparoni ‏@JimComparoni
    izzo begins the press conference by saying after watching the film that he apologizes for quickly dismissing Sunday's question time out

    Izzo: "As I watched the film I saw where we might have had numbers, but when I watched Payne with 3 Michigan guys around him I didn't want to lose the ball."

    That's not really what he said. He said Payne may have had numbers. He was apologizing to the media for dismissing the question out hand. He never said, from any transcript I have seen, that he apologized for calling timeout.

    Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.

    rookmsu ●

  • rookmsu said...

    That's not really what he said. He said Payne may have had numbers. He was apologizing to the media for dismissing the question out hand. He never said, from any transcript I have seen, that he apologized for calling timeout.

    More on this:

    Coach Tom Izzo takes some of the blame for Michigan State loss | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    Two days hasn't helped Izzo feel any better about Sunday's loss at Michigan. He admitted Tuesday he is still disappointed about the loss but also wanted to clear the air on what happened late in the game.

    www.detroitnews.com

    Vegas Vic ●

  • arfabe16 said...

    Izzo has now watched the tape, and agrees he shouldn't have called a timeout. What were you all saying?

    Joe Rexrode ‏@joerexrode
    Izzo starts presser saying after watching film, realizes MSU may have had numbers when he called TO. At time, he just saw Payne in crowd.

    Jim Comparoni ‏@JimComparoni
    izzo begins the press conference by saying after watching the film that he apologizes for quickly dismissing Sunday's question time out

    Izzo: "As I watched the film I saw where we might have had numbers, but when I watched Payne with 3 Michigan guys around him I didn't want to lose the ball."

    He's saying he saw Payne in traffic and called a timeout. And in hindsight he might not have. Sooooo... exactly what he said?

    Point out where he says he overcoached?

    This post was edited by Thrillho on 3/5/2013 at 6:50 PM

    http://www.silentlapse.com

    Thrillho

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