Online Now 2417

MSU Red Cedar Message Board

The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web

On this Board 1768
Record: 12118 (3/18/2012)

Online now 2274
Record: 10351 (3/11/2012)

Boards ▾

MSU Red Cedar Message Board

The largest and most active MSU Spartans board on the web

The Press Box

The place to ask questions to SpartanTailgate's recruiting experts

Duffy Daugherty Forum

"The Duff" is dedicated to Michigan State football recruiting discussion

Jack Breslin Forum

"The Bres" is dedicated to Michigan State basketball recruiting discussion

Wells Hall Off Topic Board

This is your pulpit to preach to the masses about everything from politics to religion

Marketplace & Ticket Exchange

The place to buy, trade or sell Michigan State tickets

Fantasy Sports Forum

For fantasy football and other fantasy sports discussion

Test/Feedback Forum

Reply

MSU/UM defense comparison

  • Take out Wisconsin from MSUs stats. Oh wait that would be fixing stats to favor one team... Oh... Whoops.

    signature image signature image

    Itz Pstein21607

  • Wheatley6 said...

    Worthy>Martin
    Pickleman=Van Bergen
    Robinson>than woolfolk

    Thats pretty straight forward.

    You got me again, but I'll try to counter.

    Gholston > Ann Arbor

    signature image

    For the love of Trevor...™

    d mcc ●

  • MSUsbetterthanu said...

    One of these is not like the other...

    MSU's 2011 Big Ten Schedule: @OSU UM Wisconsin @nebraska Minnesota @iowa Indiana @northwestern

    UM's 2011 Big Ten Schedule: Minnesota @nortwestern @msu Purdue @iowa @illinois Nebraska OSU

    MSU played OSU in Millers first start ever, with 4 of their best players suspended. Do you really think the OSU offense Michigan faced was equal to that abomination of an offense MSU faced?

    Wheatley6

  • I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of Paul Bunyan laughing his ass off.

    Royal

  • Wheatley6 said...

    Michigan didnt play Wisconsin but thats somewhat off set by not playing the 9th ranked Indiana offense..This is being misunderstood I believe, im not saying UM defense is better than MSU, just offering some insight about UM defense that I myself a Michigan fan was very surprised by. Thats all, nothing more.

    And what about playing Minnesota without Gray, who was their entire offense? Instead, UM got Minnesota with a true freshman taking his first B10 snaps.

    Not to mention, playing one of best offenses in the country twice is not offset by playing Indiana in a blowout, where our second stringers played the whole second half.

    This post was edited by Gus Chiggins on 5/8/2012 at 10:25 AM

    signature image

    Gus Chiggins

  • It is easy to make stats work in your favor, but if you watch the games there is no doubt that MSU has a better defense then Michigan and will this year. If you argue it you are just ignorant. A few years ago MSU had many statistical advantages of Alabama, and then we played them. Funny story, Alabama's defense was a little better.

    Michigan State's defensive unit next year will be the best unit in the Big Ten next year and it won't even be close. Every position has at least two all-big ten caliber players (honorable, 1st, or 2nd). In fact last year we had....

    1st Team All Big Ten Defense: Worthy, Robinson
    2nd Team: Gholston, Allen, Adams, Lewis
    HM: Bullough, Dennard, Norman, Pickelman, Rush

    Honorable mention is impressive, seeing as Toussaint and Lewan only had HM and they are considered the two best players on your team minus Robinson and have seen Michigan message boards say they are 1st round picks next year.

    So with 8 defensive players with all Big Ten talent returning (Michigan has 3 and they are all HM, we have four 2nd team coming back), I think Michigan State has the advantage. Also, we do have our leading sack getting (Tyler Hoover) from 2010 (11 win season) coming back after missing last season due to injury and 5-star super recruit LT coming in after injury.

    signature image signature image

    Michigan State University is the university of Michigan

    Bailey1149

  • Wheatley6 said...

    Well Michigan was 11-2 last year, ill take your word that MSU had more wins

    No, dipstick. 6-2, not 11-2. YOU only included Conference stats. That's what I referenced as well. Don't change the subject and then say you're not trolling, or butthurt at the replies here.

    This post was edited by jartan77 on 5/8/2012 at 10:27 AM

    My Blood Runs Green.....

    jartan77

  • Btw, for lunch, I'll be out in Rockville, MD so I think I'll look for a place that will have an Old Bay burger.

    signature image

    For the love of Trevor...™

    d mcc ●

  • Lawre167 said...

    This.

    Put Wisconsin on U-M's schedule three times and then see how glorious Mattison's crew looks.

    I pointed out that it only included the regular season game..where the reference to 3 games is coming for im not sure? MSU played Wisky twice, not three times but only one is included.

    Wheatley6

  • Wheatley6 said...

    MSU played OSU in Millers first start ever, with 4 of their best players suspended. Do you really think the OSU offense Michigan faced was equal to that abomination of an offense MSU faced?

    Offset by the fact that we played OSU in Columbus. Next.

    spartans17

  • Wheatley6 said...

    MSU played OSU in Millers first start ever, with 4 of their best players suspended. Do you really think the OSU offense Michigan faced was equal to that abomination of an offense MSU faced?

    I'd say playing them at the Shoe negates most of that.

    And again, UM didn't play Wisconsin...and got run over by the cupcake teams in OOC.

    Oh, and the best point to this...we kicked UM's ass (again). Kinda makes these schedule comparisons a moot point, come to think about it.

    MSUsbetterthanu ●

  • Wheatley6 said...

    First off I am a Michigan fan and have no intention of trolling this board. I enjoy stoping in here every once and awhile. Its very clear MSU has a tough defense and im not trying to pretend otherwise but I came across these numbers and frankly was shocked by them. This was posted on Mgoblog

    Thanks to super cupcake games against Youngstown State and Florida Atlantic the numbers are a little misleading. I took a look at conference only statistics, here are some of the numbers. Note: These are from the 8 regular season conference games and do not include the conference championship game .

    Total Defense - Conference Only

    Michigan 300.9 3rd

    MSU 313.9 4th

    Rushing Defense

    Michigan 115.6 1st

    MSU 118.1 2nd

    Passing Defense

    Michigan 185.2 5th

    MSU 195.8 9th

    First Downs

    Michigan 15.6 2nd

    MSU 18.5 4th

    3rd Down Conversion %

    Michigan 30.1 1st

    MSU 33.9 2nd

    When looking at these numbers just remember Mattison and the defensive staff accomplished this in year one! MSU certainly has a good defense, no one would doubt that, but they are not nearly as dominant as many believe and they lost as much or more than Michigan did. I think our perception of the MSU defense is more favorable because they have given our offense trouble.

    http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/stats/2011-2012/confonly.html

    bunyan bunyan bunyan bunyan

    attachment

    Herp Derp

  • This needs to break the downvote record

    Keep it up people!!

    TPain151807 ●

  • Wheatley6 said...

    Worthy>Martin
    Pickleman=Van Bergen
    Robinson>than woolfolk

    Thats pretty straight forward.

    No it's not.

    Martin was more valuable to Michigan that Worthy was to MSU...despite Worthy being a better player. We had more option than Worthy.

    Same can be said about Pickleman and TRob. Woolfolk, Martin and Van Bergan were more or less Michigan's only productive options at their respective positions. So while TRob, Worthy and Pickleman were better players, MSU had other option and production didn't drop all that much when replaced. I doubt the same could be said about the 3 Michigan players you spotlighted.

    Heck even Reynolds played pretty well in spot duty at DT coming over from the OL when the Pickleman went down. AR White at DT is probably still better than anything Michigan has right now an he was MSU 3rd DT for most of last year.

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • spartans17 said...

    Offset by the fact that we played OSU in Columbus. Next.

    Yeah, that off sets it..lol.seriously?

    Wheatley6

  • Wheatley6 said...

    Worthy>Martin Pickleman=Van Bergen Robinson>than woolfolk

    Thats pretty straight forward.

    Oh, Worthy is better than Martin now is he?

    Pickleman was injured half the year, his loss will have little effect (although him picking up and slamming one of your smurf RBs into the ground is a great memory).

    Robinson will be missed.

    We have better backups, starters, and replacements in the wings than you guys do. It is not even close. I wonder what the excuses will be when we trounce you guys in Ann Arbor and once again destroy the September Heisman?

    spartans17

  • Wheatley6 said...

    Yeah, that off sets it..lol.seriously?

    LOL, I think so brah. You don't believe in home field advantage?

    UM had the easiest schedule in the B10, by far. Give MSU that schedule, and they play in the title game.

    spartans17

  • spartans17 said...

    Offset by the fact that we played OSU in Columbus. Next.

    this. when was the last time your skunkbears beat tOSU in the shoe?

    and I bet you feel a little dirty inside trying to make your team look better than ours any way you can.

    how did SCum's D do in the conference championship game? or how about in the bowl game that people cared about? .... oh yeah, that's right...

    bryanleeg

  • Wheatley6 said...

    First off I am a Michigan fan and have no intention of trolling this board. I enjoy stoping in here every once and awhile. Its very clear MSU has a tough defense and im not trying to pretend otherwise but I came across these numbers and frankly was shocked by them. This was posted on Mgoblog

    Thanks to super cupcake games against Youngstown State and Florida Atlantic the numbers are a little misleading. I took a look at conference only statistics, here are some of the numbers. Note: These are from the 8 regular season conference games and do not include the conference championship game .

    Total Defense - Conference Only

    Michigan 300.9 3rd

    MSU 313.9 4th

    Rushing Defense

    Michigan 115.6 1st

    MSU 118.1 2nd

    Passing Defense

    Michigan 185.2 5th

    MSU 195.8 9th

    First Downs

    Michigan 15.6 2nd

    MSU 18.5 4th

    3rd Down Conversion %

    Michigan 30.1 1st

    MSU 33.9 2nd

    When looking at these numbers just remember Mattison and the defensive staff accomplished this in year one! MSU certainly has a good defense, no one would doubt that, but they are not nearly as dominant as many believe and they lost as much or more than Michigan did. I think our perception of the MSU defense is more favorable because they have given our offense trouble.

    http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/stats/2011-2012/confonly.html

    I'm down to actually discuss this . . .

    You're leaving out a minor detail that tilts these towards MSU's favor. Michigan State played against both Wisconsin and Michigan this season; the top 2 offenses in the conference. Michigan played neither. The common refrain from UM fans is that MSU also played IU. This is true, but UM played Purdue and Illinois. More on that in a second.

    You also left out Red Zone D; MSU was #1 in the conf at 72% conversion allowed, while UM was 3rd, 77.3% allowed. UM ended the year ranked #3 nationally in RZ D, so I don't think MSU is the only team who beefed up their stats with the non-conf. I also noticed you didn't even list Big 10 Scoring D: MSU was #2 at 17.6 PPG while UM was at 19.4.

    Here are the scoring and total O averages of MSU's 8 Big 10 opponents (counting Wisky only once, since the B1G statistics only count 8 games), as compared to UM's:

    Big 10 Scoring O's faced:

    MSU: 26.9625 ppg

    UM: 23.825 ppg

    Big 10 Total O's faced:

    MSU: 371.675 ypg

    UM: 349.6 ypg

    So, on average, MSU faced scoring O's averaging 3 more ppg and 22 YPG. MSU's Scoring D was just under 2 points/game BETTER than UM's despite facing offenses that scored, on average, 3 points/game more. The total D was just 13 yards/game behind UM's, despite facing total Os averaging 22 ypg more.

    I'll take it a step further, because UM's rushing D was definitely over-rated. UM's rush D averaged 2.5 yards/game less than MSU's, 115.6 ypg to 118.1 ypg. That's pretty good, till you realize that UM faced 74 fewer rushing attempts than MSU in conf. play (248 compared to 322), and gave up nearly a yard/carry more than MSU (3.7 ypc compared to MSU's 2.9).

    Just for fun . . . average rush O's faced:

    MSU: 188.775 ypg on the ground

    UM: 161.25 ypg on the ground

    Michigan missed the top 2 rushing O's (Wisky at 247 and UM at 228), as well as #s 5 and 6 (PSU and IU). UM did face the entire bottom half of the rush O's: Northwestern, IL, Purdue, Minnesota, Iowa and MSU

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky ●

  • RPMadMSU said...

    No it's not.

    Martin was more valuable to Michigan that Worthy was to MSU...despite Worthy being a better player. We had more option than Worthy.

    Same can be said about Pickleman and TRob. Woolfolk, Martin and Van Bergan were more or less Michigan's only productive options at their respective positions. So while TRob, Worthy and Pickleman were better players, MSU had other option and production didn't drop all that much when replaced. I doubt the same could be said about the 3 Michigan players you spotlighted.

    Heck even Reynolds played pretty well in spot duty at DT coming over from the OL when the Pickleman went down. AR White at DT is probably still better than anything Michigan has right now an he was MSU 3rd DT for most of last year.

    Logic fail..The statement was that MSU lost more than Michigan. You acknowlege that and then try to qualify it by saying MSU has more capable players to replace them. This may be true but it does not change the fact that MSU lost more talent on defense than Michigan.

    Wheatley6

  • I've said this before, but it never gets old.

    I'm glad WE'RE the measuring stick now. We used to be the one spinning things to shine in a better light.

    TheChosenOne30

  • Wheatley6 said...

    Yeah, that off sets it..lol.seriously?

    Michigan hasn't won there in 12 years...you tell me if it matters where the game is.

    MSUsbetterthanu ●

  • Wheatley6 said...

    When looking at these numbers just remember Mattison and the defensive staff accomplished this in year one!

    When I look at these numbers, what I remember most is that your toughest road win of the entire season was Northwestern. Northfuckingwestern.

    I guess there's something to be said for that. Storming into Evanston in front of 12 rabid hometown fans and holding the mighty 6-7 Wildcats to 438 yard of total offense is indeed impressive. Kudos.

    Satchel

  • Wheatley6 said...

    Michigan didnt play Wisconsin but thats somewhat off set by not playing the 9th ranked Indiana offense..This is being misunderstood I believe, im not saying UM defense is better than MSU, just offering some insight about UM defense that I myself a Michigan fan was very surprised by. Thats all, nothing more.

    See above. It's not offset, because UM also didn't play itself, the 2nd best O in the conf. Also, though MSU played IU, UM also played Illinois and Purdue.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky ●

  • bryanleeg said...

    this. when was the last time your skunkbears beat tOSU in the shoe?

    and I bet you feel a little dirty inside trying to make your team look better than ours any way you can.

    how did SCum's D do in the conference championship game? or how about in the bowl game that people cared about? .... oh yeah, that's right...

    They fared very well in the Sugar bowl, they won a BCS bowl and finsihed with the best record of any Big Ten team.

    Wheatley6

Michigan State
247Sports
Features
Resources
Connect

247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports