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CoachedByDuffy said...
Jamal Lyles comes into camp @ 6'-3", 230 lbs. He has jersey # 81. Could he be a future TE or DE ? However, he will begin his MSU career as a LB. Fr. TE Evan Jones comes into camp @ 6'-5", 247 lbs. JUCO TE Jamari Mills has qualified and is on the roster. He checks in @ 6'-4", 275 lbs. Fr. TE Josiah Price comes in @ 6'-4", 238 lbs.
mentalstate ●
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wingfanjim said...
But that wasn't your argument. Your argument was that Martin was less effective late in the year because his legs weren't fresh. THAT was the implication you were making. Whether he was the deep threat or not the deep threat, the bottom line is that, at the end of the season, when you claim he was so worn out because of a lack of depth, he was MUCH more effective and productive than when the season began.
However, since you are trying to change things up because your previous premise was shot completely out of the water, I will indulge you. The reason Martin didn't run a lot of deep routes is because rarely did run deep routes his entire career. He was never really good at them. In fact, Martin was never that strong of a route runner period. In fact, that was why most of his production came from bubble screens and other simple routes that allowed him to get the ball in space rather than overly precise routes (something Cunningham excelled at). Remember that Martin was a QB until he got to college so he was always way behind on his WR technique.
Also, your supposition that the vertical passing attack was not part of the offense is simply not true either. The deep route was primarily used off of play-action and Cunningham was typically the target.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
SpartanRocky
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wingfanjim said...
Yeah...Martin was REALLY hurtin at the end of the regular season. Had a huge impact on his game compared to the start of the year.
First 4 games Receiving: 14 catches for 132 yards, 0 TD Rushing: 3 carries for 8 yards, 0 TD Punt Return: 4 returns for 47 yards, 0 TD Total: 21 touches for 187 yards, 0 TD
Last 4 regular season games (including Big Ten Championship) Receiving: 23 catches for 358 yards, 1 TD Rushing: 7 carries for 45 yards, 1 TD Punt Return: 8 returns for 151 yards, 1 TD Total: 38 touches for 544 yards, 3 TD
HMMM...You are right. Martin was flat out out of gas with NOTHING left in the tank by the end of the year.
Marriage is like flying with kids, if the flight had 500 connections, never ended, Ted Striker were your pilot and you ate the fish.
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Gus Chiggins
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CoachedByDuffy said...
The pre-season roster had 114 players listed. By NCAA rules the regular season roster can only be 105 players. This will be accomplished by roster cuts, transfers or camp injuries.
"2 Tall" will come into Fall camp at a ripped 6'-7", 278 lbs. Fr. QB Tyler O'Connor will come into camp at a solid 6'-3", 215 lbs. He will share Keith Nichol's old # 7 jersey # with Fr. S Demetrious Cox. Fr. WR Kyle Kerrick is up to 194 lbs. from 184 lbs. when he arrived on campus in Jan. DE Lawrence Thomas @ 6'-3", 295 lbs. S Isaiah Lewis up to 205 lbs. from about 195 lbs. last season. LB Chris Norman is up to 233 lbs. from about 223 lbs. last season. WR Juwan Caesar now 6'-4", 212 lbs. Dana Dixon now back @ S after playing WR during the Spring, due to the short depth @ WR during Spring practice. WR Bennie Fowler up to 218 lbs. from about 213 lbs. last season. CB Trae Waynes is up to 175 lbs. from 165 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. QB Connor Cook has filled out to 6'-4", 222lbs. RS Fr. walk-on WR A. J. Troup is now 6'-2", 205 lbs. and brings size and depth to the WR position. RB Nick Hill is up to 190 lbs. from about 184 lbs. last season. WR Andre Sims is up to 182 lbs. from 174 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. RB Le'Veon Bell is up to 244 lbs. from about 237 lbs. last season. WR Keith Mumphery is up to 208 lbs. from about 202 lbs. last season. S R. J. Williamson is up to 205 lbs. from about 195 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. LB Denicos Allen is now at 225 lbs. from about 230 lbs. in the Spring. The weight loss will help him with his speed and quickness in pass coverage. RB Tony Fant, a favorite poster and player on the SpartanDigest.com site, is on the roster. Fr. LB Riley Bullough will come into Fall camp @ 6'-2", 225 lbs. LB Taiwan Jones is now at 230 lbs. down from 234 lbs. last season. Jeremy Langford will get reps at RB and WR. He is one of the fastest Spartans. FB Trevon Pendleton is up to 248 lbs. from about 235 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. LB Max Bullough is up to 252 lbs. from about 245 lbs. last season. LB Kyler Elsworth is up to 220 lbs. from about 214 lbs. last season. Taylor Calero has been moved to FB from DE. He was not likely to see any PT @ DE this season and has never been able to develop the size and strength needed for the DE position. He is now up to 248 lbs. from about 245 lbs. thru most of his career @ MSU. The staff had been planning this move since the Spring. LB Darien Harris is now up to 210 lbs. from about 205 lbs. last season. Jeremy Gainer's move to DE from LB is now permanent barring a rash of injuries at the LB position. LB Tyquan Hammock is now up to 245 lbs. from about 227 lbs. last season. C Kyle Lints is up to 296 lbs. from about 276 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. OG Connor Kruse is up to 318 lbs. from about 304 lbs. last season. The staff has invited a walk-on from the student body to try out, OG Adam Brown (6'-3", 284 lbs.) NT Jordan Sanders is back with the team after considering a transfer in the Spring. He is up to 305 lbs. from about 290 lbs. last season. C Travis Jackson is up to 280 lbs. from about 275 lbs. last season. Fr. OT Jack Conklin comes into camp @ 6'-6", 300 lbs. Fr. OG Bennie McGowan comes into camp at a massive 315 lbs. Fr. OG Zach Higgins comes into camp at 6'-4", 307 lbs. OG Donavon Clark is up to 302 lbs. from about 290 lbs when he arrived on campus last year. OT Hank Conway is up to 330 lbs. from about 318 lbs. last season. Fr. OT Kodi Kieler comes into camp @ 6'-5", 316 lbs. TE Dion Sims is at 285 lbs. as usual. LB Jamal Lyles comes into camp @ 6'-3", 230 lbs. He has jersey # 81. Could he be a future TE or DE ? However, he will begin his MSU career as a LB. Fr. TE Evan Jones comes into camp @ 6'-5", 247 lbs. JUCO TE Jamari Mills has qualified and is on the roster. He checks in @ 6'-4", 275 lbs. Fr. TE Josiah Price comes in @ 6'-4", 238 lbs. DT Brandon Clemons is up to 275 lbs. from about 260 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. DE Shilique Calhoun is up to 240 lbs. from about 220 lbs. when last season began. DT Tyler Hoover is up to 310 lbs. from about 297 lbs. last season. DT Damon Knox is up to 278 lbs. from about 260 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. DE Joel Heath is up to 266 lbs. from about 252 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. DT Mark Scarpinato is up to 278 lbs. from about 265 lbs. when he arrived on campus last year. DT Anthony Rashad White is up to 330 lbs. from about 320 lbs. last season. DT James Kittredge now has Jerel Worthy's old # 99 jersey. Hope he wears it well.
Other roster notes : 5th year Sr. TE Drew Stevens will retire from football after back surgery and take a medical DQ for 2012. Walk-on WR Jordan Benton has transferred to Div II Fort Lewis College. With MSU's young talent and depth @ WR, he was not ever likely to see PT at MSU. DB Dana Dixon is transferring to GVSU.
CoachedByDuffy
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CoachedByDuffy said...
JUCO TE Jamare Mills is on a positive track to qualify and would be eligible to play this season. The staff was confident enough that Mills would qualify that they added him to the pre-season roster even though he is finishing up summer courses at LCC.
mentalstate ●
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SpartanRocky said...
Yea, watch Martin's film towards the beginning of the year vs. the last 3-4 games. Football players wear down, and guys can lose half a step as the year goes on.
It also can help in the middle of the game. Giving your top guys a breather here and there helps them out in the 4th Q. It's a lot easier to have your top guys running 20 and 30 yard post routes when the next play they can sit on the sideline while the team runs some screens/end arounds with different players.
I'm not saying use all the FR, I'm just talking about ways to get a couple of guys' feet wet, kind of how they put Lewis as the NB in 2010.
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RPMadMSU
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CoachedByDuffy
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CoachedByDuffy said...
Evan Jones will be red-shirted and the staff will evaluate which position fits him best; TE or DE. He will play both TE and DE on the Scout Team this season. Jones is already an imposing physical specimen according to some observers who have seen him.
For the love of Trevor...™
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Gus Chiggins said...
All depends on Lippett and Fowler. MSU really needs someone that they can rely on to stretch the field vertically, something they sorely lacked last year. Theoretically, Lippett and Fowler should be able to do this, but if MSU wants to feature them in the intermediate passing game--where they can catch more balls--Burbridge could be very useful for creating space with his ability to get vertical.
But yes, I agree. I don't expect him to be a primary target this year. If he gets on the field, it will be to run deeper routes, creating space for Sims (x2), Fowler, Lippett, Arnett and Mumphrey.
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Gus Chiggins said...
I am not talking about targeting someone downfield. What I am talking about, with regard to Burbridge, is using him to force safties deep, not necessarily throw the ball to him.
If MSU coaches feel Mumphery, Fowler and Lippett--or whoever--are their best receivers, they wouldn't want to waste Mumphery on a deep post/fade on third and long where he won't be targeted. Burbridge could easily fill role, creating space between the linebackers and safties for guys like Mumphery, or even Dion Sims.
On a first down playaction? Sure, Mumphery could be a deep threat. But again, that was never my point. I am simply suggesting an easy and defined role for Burbridge that could get him on the field this year, without the need to block or run more nuanced routes.
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Gus Chiggins
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CoachedByDuffy
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Gus Chiggins said...
I am not talking about targeting someone downfield. What I am talking about, with regard to Burbridge, is using him to force safties deep, not necessarily throw the ball to him.
If MSU coaches feel Mumphery, Fowler and Lippett--or whoever--are their best receivers, they wouldn't want to waste Mumphery on a deep post/fade on third and long where he won't be targeted. Burbridge could easily fill role, creating space between the linebackers and safties for guys like Mumphery, or even Dion Sims.
On a first down playaction? Sure, Mumphery could be a deep threat. But again, that was never my point. I am simply suggesting an easy and defined role for Burbridge that could get him on the field this year, without the need to block or run more nuanced routes.
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CoachedByDuffy said...
No, not this season. Evan Jones is just too raw in the passing game coming from a HS that rarely passed the ball. He will red-shirt. Fr. Josiah Price could be a contributor in the passing game as a TE/H-Back if the staff feels they aren't getting enough production from other TE's and they decide to burn his red-shirt. One of Josiah's strengths is his pass catching ability.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
SpartanRocky
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CoachedByDuffy
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SpartanRocky said...
Ironically enough, the converted DE Drone has exhibited very soft hands and could make an impact this year if his ankle has healed. I'm also intrigued by Gliechart (sp); 6'5 255 and apparently can block. Those 2 + Sims should give MSU an adequate TE rotation.
mentalstate ●
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tBell Tolls
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Smitty_ said...
Understood.
At least early, I think Keith will be that "chunk" guy they will take shots with, whereas Fowler/Lippett will run more intermediate routes. Fowler and Arnett will get the majority of the jet/bubble screens and Sims will get alot of work over the middle.
CoachedByDuffy
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SpartanRocky said...
The deep routes were one dimensional as you pointed out; play actions to BJ. That was about it; I didn't see those guys running 25 yard outs regularly. I didn't say that the vertical wasn't a part of the O at all, but rather they weren't utilized to their full capacity. Kind of weird, considering Roushar stated before the season that he wanted to have more of a vertical passing game, right?
For Martin, I'm not even talking about the guy being asked to make double moves and run skinny posts. 'm talking straight up fly routes. I don't care how bad you are at running routes, anyone can run in a straight line. Why didn't they send Martin that way? I don't know for sure, but I theorize that it's in part because they needed his legs for 8760 other things.
The real original premise was that MSU can utilize some of the true FR in some of K-marts separate roles to lessen the wear and tear on the other receivers, who I think will be asked to run more vertical routes throughout the year. My example was that Martin wasn't running long routes and didn't have his same burst late in the year.
So you're right; Martin didn't wear out. State also didn't utilize the vertical passing game as well as they could, in part because they didn't have the personnel to do so; Cunningham was largely a possession receiver, Nichol wasn't that fast and Martin had to do a bunch of other things. Is it so crazy to think that, by utilizing a FR or so on bubble screens/end arounds that it would allow the starting receivers to be able to go deep more often this season?
All this aside, I think we can agree that the raw physical talent of the current MSU receivers is better than last year's group. Their route running/hands is obviously a question, but at least they have the raw tools to work with.
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Michigan State preseason roster and depth chart