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NCAA issues sanctions over N. Dakota's "Fighting Sioux" name

  • RPMadMSU said...

    There is no "Huron" tribe persay at this time.

    Then who could be offended by them using hurons

    Duke Silver

  • Beardy said...

    Anyway, the lesson is: Know your donors.

    Oh, they knew who their donor was, but when he is willing to donate $110 million for your hockey rink and you are North Dakota, you really just don't give a s*&t.

    dickso11

  • VargMan said...

    Excellent.

    I hope UND sues the NCAA and this leads to the shattering of that organization. Then, the major conferences can form a new association.

    What on earth is UND going to sue the NCAA on? What could possibly be the case?

    Io Triumphe

  • Loki said...

    Just change the mascot to the Fighting Sue.

    I was going to say change it to the Fighting Suh, but who knows what kind of royalties N'dominic (as he's known on the radio) would charge.

    Larry Kazamias

  • Io Triumphe said...

    What on earth is UND going to sue the NCAA on? What could possibly be the case?

    That the NCAA is attempting to make them violate a state law?

    Larry Kazamias

  • chunkfat8 said...

    So back in the early 90's did the Huron actually complain about Eastern Michigans use of the mascot? And personally I think the Fighting Sioux could easily be top 5 nicknames for a school.

    P.S. - sorry for coming on your board and posting, I just find topics like this very intriguing

    "EMU used the Hurons name and Indian logo from 1929 until 1991. Despite much controversy, support of the Huron tribes in Oklahoma and Quebec, and anger among its alumni, EMU changed the logo after the Michigan Department of Civil Rights issued a report suggesting that all schools drop such logos."

    So, no the tribe had no issue, and didn't want it changed. EMU was just ahead of the curve on misplaced PC.

    Larry Kazamias

  • So I'm assuming MSU has some sort of written approval from the people in southern Greece for name and such?

    JLSparty

  • JLSparty said...

    So I'm assuming MSU has some sort of written approval from the people in southern Greece for name and such?

    What about Sparta, Michigan? Heck they are Spartans too!!@!@#$

    Signature for rent

    Kerndaddy

  • Good question. I guess the Wyandot Nation could be, but they don't even use Huron any more. I don't think any other Iriqouis tribe that the Hurons were related too uses it either.

    signature image

    RPMadMSU ●

  • Larry Kazamias said...

    That the NCAA is attempting to make them violate a state law?

    If I am following this correctly, the only thing the NCAA has said is that North Dakota will NOT be allowed to host any NCAA sanctioned event, such as a playoff game, and that North Dakota is not allowed to wear any Sioux logo during a NCAA Tournament game.

    The State Law has said that the University must be the Fighting Sioux.

    These are not in violation of each other. All season long UND can wear the SIOUX Blackhawk jersey and then during the tournament switch to a North Dakota jersey OR just wear a North Dakota jersey. I don't see how the NCAA is forcing UND to break a state law.

    Even if UND does sue the NCAA on what ever grounds they can come up with, the most they could look for is that the NCAA must pay for the removal of the Sioux logos. This isn't going to destroy the NCAA and UND being an incredibly small player would watch their hockey program, and athletic department in general, die if they tried to take down the NCAA. UND has no leg to stand on and Varg's hope that the NCAA disbands over a lawsuit by UND is horrible misguided.

    Io Triumphe

  • Io Triumphe said...

    If I am following this correctly, the only thing the NCAA has said is that North Dakota will NOT be allowed to host any NCAA sanctioned event, such as a playoff game, and that North Dakota is not allowed to wear any Sioux logo during a NCAA Tournament game.

    The State Law has said that the University must be the Fighting Sioux.

    These are not in violation of each other. All season long UND can wear the SIOUX Blackhawk jersey and then during the tournament switch to a North Dakota jersey OR just wear a North Dakota jersey. I don't see how the NCAA is forcing UND to break a state law.

    Even if UND does sue the NCAA on what ever grounds they can come up with, the most they could look for is that the NCAA must pay for the removal of the Sioux logos. This isn't going to destroy the NCAA and UND being an incredibly small player would watch their hockey program, and athletic department in general, die if they tried to take down the NCAA. UND has no leg to stand on and Varg's hope that the NCAA disbands over a lawsuit by UND is horrible misguided.

    That's why they need to find a way to get an NCAA partner involved, like ESPN, referees, or another media outlet.

    signature image

    RPMadMSU ●

  • As a Native American, the reason why some Sioux oppose this is because it’s their name and they deserve to have control over how it is used. Some of you don’t understand but the reason why some in the NA community have opposed this is because they believe they are being associated with animals because that is usually is what most teams named after. That is such a touchy issue for us because there was a time in this country that most people and even scientist didn’t believe we were actual human beings. The Seminoles and the Chips get paid for their namesake. But some Sioux would rather not take the money and retain their namesake and some dignity. Some of you should think before you type because you never know who is actually on this board. As a NA it honestly is not a big deal to me but I can understand why it would be. The only problems I do have are the name the Washington “Redskins”, and the stereotypical Cleveland Indians logos. But other than that as long as teams have permission or if the logos and names are not derogatory I have no problem with it.

    signature image signature image signature image

    CWEBB

  • Ron Jeremy said...

    The Standing Rock tribe are bunch of morons.

    The Native American Indian tribes complain how they have been pushed into oblivion, let they can't vote to keep their name alive?

    Probably too busy opening another casino.

    So you guys ban UM fans for trolling but, racism is cool on this board? I see where your guy’s priorities are.

    signature image signature image signature image

    CWEBB

  • CWEBB said...

    So you guys ban UM fans for trolling but, racism is cool on this board? I see where your guy’s priorities are.

    I hate to agree with a Wolverine fan (who also happens to be a UK basketball fan lol) but he has a major point here.

    Io Triumphe

  • CWEBB said...

    As a Native American, the reason why some Sioux oppose this is because it’s their name and they deserve to have control over how it is used. Some of you don’t understand but the reason why some in the NA community have opposed this is because they believe they are being associated with animals because that is usually is what most teams named after. That is such a touchy issue for us because there was a time in this country that most people and even scientist didn’t believe we were actual human beings. The Seminoles and the Chips get paid for their namesake. But some Sioux would rather not take the money and retain their namesake and some dignity. Some of you should think before you type because you never know who is actually on this board. As a NA it honestly is not a big deal to me but I can understand why it would be. The only problems I do have are the name the Washington “Redskins”, and the stereotypical Cleveland Indians logos. But other than that as long as teams have permission or if the logos and names are not derogatory I have no problem with it.

    Nicely said.

    I would say that the two most prominent offensive mascots in sports are the Redskins and the Fighting Irish. My brother-in-law -who is Native American- jokes about the Redskins saying: "How do you think people would react to a team with the name 'Blackskins' or something like the North Carolina N***ers." He makes a good point.

    signature image signature image signature image

    --- --- "If you want to be the Man, then you have got to BE the Man." -- CA Sparty's Dad

    Misterray ●

  • Misterray said...

    Nicely said.

    I would say that the two most prominent offensive mascots in sports are the Redskins and the Fighting Irish. My brother-in-law -who is Native American- jokes about the Redskins saying: "How do you think people would react to a team with the name 'Blackskins' or something like the North Carolina N***ers." He makes a good point.

    This is what the term “Redskins” actually means. It’s a very derogatory term. http://www.aics.org/mascot/redskins.html

    signature image signature image signature image

    CWEBB

  • I will make this a little simpler for you guys to understand. If someone was using your name in a derogatory manner and profiting off of it. Would you say “Hey its ok, people are too sensitive these days anyways, I’ll get over it”. Or would try to stop it?

    signature image signature image signature image

    CWEBB

  • Larry Kazamias said...

    "EMU used the Hurons name and Indian logo from 1929 until 1991. Despite much controversy, support of the Huron tribes in Oklahoma and Quebec, and anger among its alumni, EMU changed the logo after the Michigan Department of Civil Rights issued a report suggesting that all schools drop such logos."

    So, no the tribe had no issue, and didn't want it changed. EMU was just ahead of the curve on misplaced PC.

    That a decision by EMU - they could have gone the route of CMU and changed the logo. CMU did that and were in full compliance with the law.

    I've always thought EMU should have become the "Emus."

    "If you have the right to be offended I have the right to offend you." - Ricky Gervais

    Enrico Palazzo

  • Io Triumphe said...

    If I am following this correctly, the only thing the NCAA has said is that North Dakota will NOT be allowed to host any NCAA sanctioned event, such as a playoff game, and that North Dakota is not allowed to wear any Sioux logo during a NCAA Tournament game.

    The State Law has said that the University must be the Fighting Sioux.

    These are not in violation of each other. All season long UND can wear the SIOUX Blackhawk jersey and then during the tournament switch to a North Dakota jersey OR just wear a North Dakota jersey. I don't see how the NCAA is forcing UND to break a state law.

    Even if UND does sue the NCAA on what ever grounds they can come up with, the most they could look for is that the NCAA must pay for the removal of the Sioux logos. This isn't going to destroy the NCAA and UND being an incredibly small player would watch their hockey program, and athletic department in general, die if they tried to take down the NCAA. UND has no leg to stand on and Varg's hope that the NCAA disbands over a lawsuit by UND is horrible misguided.

    "2.) No "Sioux" imagery or logos at NCAA tournament events.
    3.) If UND defies the second requirement to not have "Sioux" imagery at NCAA events, UND must forfeit those athletic contests and reimburse any NCAA travel aid."

    OK, true UND can stay away from violating the state law, which as previous stated is name and logo, by not playing competitive sport or forfeiting every NCAA event while paying their own way to get there to forfeit.

    The point of that would be?

    I don't think there's a terrific leap in saying the NCAA is essentially banning the name and logo, against the state law, though I also think that there are no broad sweeping ramifications either.

    Larry Kazamias

  • SBSpartan said...

    Ie ya ya ya ie ya ya ya don't care.

    Moran

    Vegas Vic ●

  • I'm irish should I sue Notre Dame for being racist?

    Duke Silver

  • RedCedarReaper said...

    I'm irish should I sue Notre Dame for being racist?

    IYO if the “Fighting Irish” convey a negative stereotype about you and your people then go right ahead.

    signature image signature image signature image

    CWEBB

  • Larry Kazamias said...

    "2.) No "Sioux" imagery or logos at NCAA tournament events. 3.) If UND defies the second requirement to not have "Sioux" imagery at NCAA events, UND must forfeit those athletic contests and reimburse any NCAA travel aid."

    OK, true UND can stay away from violating the state law, which as previous stated is name and logo, by not playing competitive sport or forfeiting every NCAA event while paying their own way to get there to forfeit.

    The point of that would be?

    I don't think there's a terrific leap in saying the NCAA is essentially banning the name and logo, against the state law, though I also think that there are no broad sweeping ramifications either.

    All they have to do is place their ND logo on their 2012-13 competition uniforms. They can keep the Sioux name as long as they do not imagery or logos at NCAA tournament events. It's not forcing them to change the name.

    The NCAA is banning the logo or the word Souix from being in their tournaments, but it doesn't prohibit the team from wearing the ND logo or something saying North Dakota.

    I don't see how this a violation of state law. The teams are still allowed to participate, the school just has to have a uniform that doesn't violate this rule on images. The team will still be called the Sioux and nothing changes other than the logo on uniforms, this is certainly not a violation of state law.

    Io Triumphe

  • Larry Kazamias said...

    That the NCAA is attempting to make them violate a state law?

    UND does not have to be a member of the NCAA. They have chosen to be a member.
    They can leave, and deal with the tribes on their own if they choose.

    I don't understand why people think they should be able to join the NCAA, then dictate to the NCAA which rules they follow, and which ones they don't, even to the point of suing the NCAA over it.

    Phil McCrackin

  • RedCedarReaper said...

    I'm irish should I sue Notre Dame for being racist?

    I'm actually surprised this doesn't come up more often.

    Phil McCrackin

Michigan State
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