MSU Red Cedar Message Board

I feel sorry for teachers who have to deal with today's punks. I am so tired of 'its the system'. How about, 'its the parents and kids'.

Ding. ding.

The educational system is driven by politicians and influential organizations which create the "reforms" (most ignoring research and sound advice), mandates and from which they profit.

The last 9 Secretaries of the Department of education- 8 or nine have no educational experience whatsoever and the other had very little. They are responsible for stimulating innovation, improvements, national standards, etc.

Most "expert reformers" embraced in the accountability craze have very little experience or success as teachers. Who a doctor with three years of doctoring be allowed to drive reform? Would a solder with 3-5 years of service be allowed to "reform" the system? Would any other profession allow inexperience to manipulate and steer change? Would these people be taken seriously? Yet we permit this in education. T

his reform we see today does not fix what is broken. It's a shells game. There is no discussion of innovative teaching or learning practices except at the grass roots level. There is no discussion of fixing the funding game- which no longer works in this climate (Proposal A). The deform is top heavy. It's testing heavy- which is ineffective. It's inefficient. It's myopic and is not based on/or ignores educational studies. Until a bona fide discussion takes place- improvements will not take place while the top profits greatly.

Again. keep this discussion civil.

OK, good luck developing that system for gangsters.

BTW: 2+2=4. Its been that way for a zillion years. Either study it or don't. Those that don't, no need to come crying about the 'system'.

Just based on how horrible this thread is and has been from the start, i hope this "educator" didn't attend MSU. Isnt the EDU school like top 10? Maybe our educators in EL need to stop allowing people to get through the system.

If a student with Downs doesn't learn to apply the quadratic equation, is it the fault of the student or teacher?

Well, neither, El Doctor B, why would you be teaching a child with the mental capacity of a 6 year old the quadratic equation anyway?

For clarification, a personal story. I recently had two brothers in my class as freshman. They HATED school. They could barely read, did terrible academically, and often got into trouble in and out of school. They lived with their mom, who could not read, did not have a job, nor did she ever have any real gainful employment in her life. At the end of freshman year, they each had about .5 credits to their name. They eventually dropped out after the first quarter of their "sophomore" year.

One day during the beginning of their second year in high school, a teacher was having trouble with his lawnmower. He brought the lawnmower in for another teacher to look at, that just so happened to be a special education teacher who taught these two boys. He had the brothers take a look at the mower, and after about 45 minutes to an hour, had the lawnmower not only running again but fully functioning.

Those two boys had a unique skill. That skill could have landed them fully employment. Instead, we insisted on trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The result is that those two will probably never have a real job or pay taxes. They will probably be arrested multiple times in their lives and be absent parents. We arbitrarily assign a value to certain skills while dismissing others. Why? Well, honestly that system is inherently flawed and unequal. You can't say that, "well, if they just tried harder, they would get it." We value skills that those in power naturally possess through a solid, and frankly, rich upbringing. We devalue the others.

So, the kid with Downs just needs to try harder, right?

Thank you for the response and it makes alot of sense. My earlier post was just remarking what I sense is a frustration of outsiders when hearing the argument you made. Combining your earlier post with this one paints a more complete picture.

Regarding the 40 hour a week job and summers off...hard to compare to my job in public accounting. Client-based, insane hours and travel. Although I make a pretty decent annual salary, my per/hour pay looks pathetic.

I think the general perception of outsiders (including myself) is that teachers generally work 40 hours or less a week and do not work roughly 2-3 months a year. In comparison to a professional working a standard 40 hour work week 50 weeks a year, an average teacher is putting in 75-80% of the hours in comparison to that individual. I will counter by saying I know teachers that put in 50-60 hours a week during the school year. They also seem to be the exception and not the rule. Lastly, taking on this workload is optional to some degree and the hours are more flexible than most professions. The teacher can work an extra 2 hours outside the classroom from 3-5pm or 9-11pm for instance. I'm not saying my perception (or others) is reality - but it is my perception.

The biggest issue is that teachers nowadays have so many variables when teaching on any given day that it would be hard for ANYONE to stay sane for a year, let alone a career.

Even when I was in Michigan, teaching American Government in Michigan, the kids were in for a rude awaking on the way I ran classes. 3 parents tried to confront me on it, but after giving them the syllabus and telling them that in 6 months your kid will be treated the exact same way in college, they gave up their fight and bought into my system. Needless to say, I still have contact with many of those kids 5 years later because they realized that I was preparing for college and after, but yet respected them enough where sometimes I would spend 10 hours at the building to allow some kids to use my PC because they didn't have one, or just talk about life in general because they didn't have a male role model in their lives. Again, that is and never will be my issue with teaching. I can even deal with the crazy parents, I have a beef with the state mandates in THIS state when it comes to standardized testing.

FYI, If my school under performs on the state test another 3 years straight, I'm out of job because the state will shut my school down.. And under performs means having less then 95% of students pass the state test.

Does it really matter tig?

Iceman-

I do not have the talent to do your job. Thanks for doing what you do and for doing it well.

Teachers typically meet with kids by contract about 38-40 hours a week depending on the school. But, this does not include 30-120 minutes + tutoring, copying, meetings altering plans etc before and after school. Easily another 8 hours every week. (46-48 hrs). Then, there are other meetings, research, planning, grading (there is no grading fairy, eh?), etc. which adds another 5-20+ hours a week. I tend to average about 60 hours a week which puts me at about 2100 hours during the contract year. Last summer I averaged another 5-7 hours a week during my unpaid "summer off", rewriting curriculum, meeting with my AP students, researching and discussing innovative methodologies and strategies as well as taking grade classes that are mandated to keep my job. I spent another 40 hours in Chicago attending a conference for no college credit, no raise/step, mostly at my expense. So, I guess I put in about another 120 hours before August hit and I jumped back in to 20 hours weeks in August until schools starts. People in my department and I average about 2200-2400 hours a year more or less depending on the year's goals, trials and tribulations. This year with the way the politics have been, I bet I've been at 70-80 hours a week from Sept. to June. Typical?, who knows. Is a 40 hours work week and a unpaid "summer off" typical, well,...hardly, Every job has it's hardships, and bennies, 3-4 weeks of vacation (some paid). I have friends in Engineering, Management, Gov., and business and they all have different stories- some I envy, others I'm thankful not to have to do. BTW, not an excuse, just 'splainin my game. For those who envy my unpaid "summer off", I challenge you to put up or shut up and go into education. ;) Peace.