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St. Joe's Denies Graduate Transfer

  • Martelli comes off as a giant asshole based on the student's story. Brandon Wood mention in the story as well.

    Todd O'Brien: St. Joe's won't give release to play at UAB - NCAA Basketball - SI.com

    When you're�seven-feet tall, you expect people to ask: While I still get this question all the time,�I'm not sure what to tell them these days. I have a basketball scholarship this season at the University of Alabama at Birmingham. I practice with the team, work out with the team, and dress with the team. But then the games start and I am pinned to the bench, ineligible to play. It's not about grades or discipline or injury. It's more simple --�and more complicated --�than that. My former school, Saint Joseph's in Philadelphia, won't sign a simple form releasing me.

    sportsillustrated.cnn.com

    IHateWeberState

  • Martelli is an assbag. Not surprised.

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    Formerly Venomous Green Duck. Join Date: Nov. 2004 # of posts: 17,867.

    VenomousGDuck23

  • I dunno...he seems like a douche in that. I'd like to hear the other side of the story.

    Why did he transfer the first time, why did Martelli stick him on the bench.... Basically it looks as if he's played 3 seasons, and sat out another due to the transfer. Not sure that can count as a red-shirt year.

    Maybe Martelli made "promises" to get this kid to Philly, and the kid is backing out of the deal...Basketball is dirty like that and it's
    not all on the coaches. I can't form an opinion until I hear both sides. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

    By the way, it was not just Martelli...the NCAA denied his appeal as well.

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • Hopefully this story going public will allow the kid a chance to play.

    KC_SPARTAN

  • KC_SPARTAN said...

    Hopefully this story going public will allow the kid a chance to play.

    Doubtful, the NCAA already ruled...don't think they'll go back on it.

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • RPMadMSU said...

    I dunno...he seems like a douche in that. I'd like to hear the other side of the story.

    Why did he transfer the first time, why did Martelli stick him on the bench.... Basically it looks as if he's played 3 seasons, and sat out another due to the transfer. Not sure that can count as a red-shirt year.

    Maybe Martelli made "promises" to get this kid to Philly, and the kid is backing out of the deal...Basketball is dirty like that and it's not all on the coaches. I can't form an opinion until I hear both sides. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

    By the way, it was not just Martelli...the NCAA denied his appeal as well.

    There has to be MUCH more to this story. A school can only deny permission to transfer in limited circumstances and the school has 15 days to provide an appeal. if the appeal is not held within that time the permission is automatically granted. The only time I've ever heard of permission being denied is in cases of tampering by another school. A blanket transfer is not going to be denied and the denial upheld by the NCAA without something else going on.

    "If you have the right to be offended I have the right to offend you." - Ricky Gervais

    Enrico Palazzo

  • Enrico Palazzo said...

    There has to be MUCH more to this story. A school can only deny permission to transfer in limited circumstances and the school has 15 days to provide an appeal. if the appeal is not held within that time the permission is automatically granted. The only time I've ever heard of permission being denied is in cases of tampering by another school. A blanket transfer is not going to be denied and the denial upheld by the NCAA without something else going on.

    Yup...and the appeal has already been denied by the NCAA. So again...lets not jump to conclusions on this.

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • RPMadMSU said...

    I dunno...he seems like a douche in that. I'd like to hear the other side of the story.

    Why did he transfer the first time, why did Martelli stick him on the bench.... Basically it looks as if he's played 3 seasons, and sat out another due to the transfer. Not sure that can count as a red-shirt year.

    Maybe Martelli made "promises" to get this kid to Philly, and the kid is backing out of the deal...Basketball is dirty like that and it's
    not all on the coaches. I can't form an opinion until I hear both sides. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

    By the way, it was not just Martelli...the NCAA denied his appeal as well.

    I would like to hear Martelli's side as well. However, while the NCAA could have made it right, the burden falls squarely on St. Joe's as the reason for the NCAA's denial was based on the fact that they wouldn't give him a release which is required. Also remember that we are Wood's 3rd school, so I'm not sure you should use that to assume the kid may be more at fault than he thinks. Wonder if the backlash will force Martelli to acquiesce and release him.

    IHateWeberState

  • IHateWeberState said...

    Wonder if the backlash will force Martelli to acquiesce and release him.

    ...or if it will get him to tell the other side of the story.

    tVargMan Prime

  • It's clear the main focus was athletics - but still let the kid go.

    His appeal should have been academically based.

    This post was edited by Spartytruth on 12/19/2011 at 2:40 PM

    Spartytruth

  • IHateWeberState said...

    I would like to hear Martelli's side as well. However, while the NCAA could have made it right, the burden falls squarely on St. Joe's as the reason for the NCAA's denial was based on the fact that they wouldn't give him a release which is required. Also remember that we are Wood's 3rd school, so I'm not sure you should use that to assume the kid may be more at fault than he thinks. Wonder if the backlash will force Martelli to acquiesce and release him.

    The NCAA has no onus to change or uphold an appeal based on the School's ruling. That's why there is an appeal process. In fact, the St. Joe's AD already issued a statement a statement on the process:

    "As to Mr. O'Brien's comments on the University's failure to grant him a waiver, the University does not discuss matters relating to current or former student-athletes consistent with our policy and commitment to student privacy issues. It is our understanding that the NCAA has denied Mr. O'Brien's appeal. Although the University was not a party to the NCAA appeal process and has not been informed of the reasons for the NCAA decision in this matter, the outcome of the appeal appears to have resolved all outstanding issues related to the appeal."

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • RPMadMSU said...

    Yup...and the appeal has already been denied by the NCAA. So again...lets not jump to conclusions on this.

    It makes me laugh every time.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Jimmy McBride on 12/19/2011 at 2:51 PM

    attachment

    Jimmy McBride

  • RPMadMSU said...

    The NCAA has no onus to change or uphold an appeal based on the School's ruling. That's why there is an appeal process. In fact, the St. Joe's AD already issued a statement a statement on the process:

    "As to Mr. O'Brien's comments on the University's failure to grant him a waiver, the University does not discuss matters relating to current or former student-athletes consistent with our policy and commitment to student privacy issues. It is our understanding that the NCAA has denied Mr. O'Brien's appeal. Although the University was not a party to the NCAA appeal process and has not been informed of the reasons for the NCAA decision in this matter, the outcome of the appeal appears to have resolved all outstanding issues related to the appeal."

    I understand that the NCAAis not required to abide by the school's ruling, all I'm going off of is what was in the article indicating that no reason was initially given and the reason referenced for the denial of the appeal was that the required release was not received. Now O'Brien could be lying but when a guy like Jeremiah Masoli is cleared to use this rule then I'm not sure the NCAA should be trusted to make the right decision. Do you think Wood's decision was academically based?

    IHateWeberState

  • IHateWeberState said...

    I understand that the NCAAis not required to abide by the school's ruling, all I'm going off of is what was in the article indicating that no reason was initially given and the reason referenced for the denial of the appeal was that the required release was not received. Now O'Brien could be lying but when a guy like Jeremiah Masoli is cleared to use this rule then I'm not sure the NCAA should be trusted to make the right decision. Do you think Wood's decision was academically based?

    I don't think Wood, or Masoli's cases can be brought into the discussion as we have no idea what the other side of this story is. Again...you (and others) are basing your opinion on the statement by one party involved. That's generally not a good way to operate. I'd be careful before you deify O'Brien and make St. Joes/Martelli a villain in this.

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • RPMadMSU said...

    I don't think Wood, or Masoli's cases can be brought into the discussion as we have no idea what the other side of this story is. Again...you (and others) are basing your opinion on the statement by one party involved. That's generally not a good way to operate. I'd be careful before you deify O'Brien and make St. Joes/Martelli a villain in this.

    I tend to side with the athletes. I think a lot of these kids get the short end of the stick. How much do these coaches and AD's get paid? A free education is great but at the end of the day, it's the kid's life. Let him go and live out his last year to play somewhere. We got Wood, we've let plenty of kids go elsewhere, it's just the way things should be done. In 5, 10, 20 years will it matter to the university? How would this negatively impact St. Joes and the kid's that go there for school?

    Harry Callahan

  • Harry Callahan said...

    I tend to side with the athletes. I think a lot of these kids get the short end of the stick. How much do these coaches and AD's get paid? A free education is great but at the end of the day, it's the kid's life. Let him go and live out his last year to play somewhere. We got Wood, we've let plenty of kids go elsewhere, it's just the way things should be done. In 5, 10, 20 years will it matter to the university? How would this negatively impact St. Joes and the kid's that go there for school?

    I just want to know how much a school invests in the recruitment, education, support and promotion of a student athlete v, the education, support and promotion of a regular student....no one has ever figured that out for me.

    It's fine if you side with the athlete, I don't know what happens, and I reiterate my original point....I can't form an opinion on this. I just want people to look at this beyond the statements of the kid. Obviously he has motives as well.

    Schools and the NCAA generally don't go out of their way to screw a kid without reason...actually it can be argued that the NCAA has been incredibly open on transferring and granting additional eligibility...I mean look at Sam Okey or Cam Newton...

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    RPMadMSU

  • What about making these graduates sit out a year if they transfer.

    hoke- to alter or manipulate so as to give a deceptively or superficially improved quality or value.

    The Doctor

  • RPMadMSU said...

    I don't think Wood, or Masoli's cases can be brought into the discussion as we have no idea what the other side of this story is. Again...you (and others) are basing your opinion on the statement by one party involved. That's generally not a good way to operate. I'd be careful before you deify O'Brien and make St. Joes/Martelli a villain in this.

    As I alluded to in the OP and stated again, I would like to hear Martelli's side and in no way am I deifying O'Brien. However, if a student wants to leave after graduating and continue his education elsewhere then St. Joes better have one hell of a story as to why they denied him that opportunity. As for bringing Wood and Masoli into it, I think it definitely has relevance. The spirit of the rule was to allow graduates the opportunity to transfer for academic reasons. It would reason then that the only reason the NCAA should deny an appeal is if they do not believe the reason to be academically based. Which brings us back to Masoli and Wood and whether you believe their transfers had more merit. I just don't know how anyone could think that. Not to mention the fact that St. Joes was afforded the opportunity to provide their side and essentially chose not to. If someone refuses to tell their side, then how do you give them the benefit of the doubt?

    IHateWeberState

  • IHateWeberState said...

    As I alluded to in the OP and stated again, I would like to hear Martelli's side and in no way am I deifying O'Brien. However, if a student wants to leave after graduating and continue his education elsewhere then St. Joes better have one hell of a story as to why they denied him that opportunity. As for bringing Wood and Masoli into it, I think it definitely has relevance. The spirit of the rule was to allow graduates the opportunity to transfer for academic reasons. It would reason then that the only reason the NCAA should deny an appeal is if they do not believe the reason to be academically based. Which brings us back to Masoli and Wood and whether you believe their transfers had more merit. I just don't know how anyone could think that. Not to mention the fact that St. Joes was afforded the opportunity to provide their side and essentially chose not to. If someone refuses to tell their side, then how do you give them the benefit of the doubt?

    He can and has transferred to continue his education...he just can't play basketball. (Shoot he's even sitting on the bench and traveling with the team, etc...)

    Why is the question that has only been answered half way.

    Why are we so quick to believe every thing this kid says? Not giving St. Joes the Benefit of the doubt...I'm just doubting everything.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by RPMadMSU on 12/19/2011 at 3:25 PM

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    RPMadMSU

  • The Doctor said...

    What about making these graduates sit out a year if they transfer.

    then they couldn't compete. They have 5 years to compete 4 years. Unless they graduate in 3 years if you make them sit they would use that 5th year sitting out a year in residence.

    The grad school exception was a great idea in its current incarnation. The original one let them transfer anywhere upon graduation and schools were poaching kids in a sketchy manner. Now the rule is if the school you transfer to has a program your original school does not then you can transfer and not sit.

    "If you have the right to be offended I have the right to offend you." - Ricky Gervais

    Enrico Palazzo

  • RPMadMSU said...

    He can and has transferred to continue his education...he just can't play basketball. (Shoot he's even sitting on the bench and traveling with the team, etc...)

    Why is the question that has only been answered half way.

    Why are we so quick to believe every thing this kid says? Not giving St. Joes the Benefit of the doubt...I'm just doubting everything.

    So would you feel the same way if Wood was sitting on our bench right now because Valpo refused to grant him his release and wouldn't provide a reason?

    IHateWeberState

  • IHateWeberState said...

    So would you feel the same way if Wood was sitting on our bench right now because Valpo refused to grant him his release and wouldn't provide a reason?

    Don't know...Different player, different person, different circumstances.

    It's too easy to lay a blanket over a pile of situations and form an opinion on them all based on what we know about a single one.

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    RPMadMSU

  • RPMadMSU said...

    Don't know...Different player, different person, different circumstances.

    It's too easy to lay a blanket over a pile of situations and form an opinion on them all based on what we know about a single one.

    It's about as close to the same situation as you can get based on the information we have. It's a pretty simple question. If we had the same information and Wood was the player involved, then would you feel the same way? I'm guessing you're deflecting because you would likely be siding with Wood without the additional info you are waiting for in this case.

    IHateWeberState

  • IHateWeberState said...

    It's about as close to the same situation as you can get based on the information we have. It's a pretty simple question. If we had the same information and Wood was the player involved, then would you feel the same way? I'm guessing you're deflecting because you would likely be siding with Wood without the additional info you are waiting for in this case.

    The key words in this post is "based on the information we have..." Take that to heart. It's not as simple a question as you think.

    Let me ask you this...if we had the same information on Wood as we have on this O'Brian guy...would Izzo have taken him in the first place?

    See what I mean...We don't know, so I can't form an opinion one way or another.

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    RPMadMSU

  • This tells you everything you need to know about the NCAA, a kid graduates in 4 years and wants to go to grad school and play his last year. That's what a student athlete is supposed to be, so of course they deny him the opportunity while they keep the Cam Newton's of the world eligible.

    What possible explanation could there be from Martelli to deny the waiver? Doesn't matter if the kid is a saint or a jerk, he's not playing for St. Joes and by leaving he frees up a schollie or saves the cost of a schollie for the program. This is just an example of a coach being a classless jerk. Glad to see the article get out, as recruiting just got a whole lot harder for him.

    Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity. - Frank Leahy.-- If you're going to be stupid, be smart about it. - Mike Milbury

    Bullwrinkle

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