MSU Red Cedar Message Board

That's what I thought..... my friend who I saw it with said there was no auto pilot and I disagreed.

But it's poorly written. By having the rope you're showing you fear death. By ridding yourself of the rope, you don't fear death.

So he had to learn to fear death so he could not fear death?

I think it's just the basic primal instinct of you must succeed at this in order to survive. By being willing to die for your freedom, then you are gaining your freedom back.

The use of rope as a crutch enabled the jumper to not fear death. Fearing death only comes into play when the safety was gone.

I think it's really a foreshadowing of the upcoming Gotham war and not necessarily a literal meaning.

In order to beat Bane, Batman needs to fear dying again because Batman's the only hope Gotham has in surviving. Just like in the BB-- Bruce learns the gray areas of being a criminal by actually stealing. Bruce learns the desperation needed to save Gotham by completing the same jump that Talia did.-- Which is why he has to trust others like Catwoman

Bruce is the mirrored image of Talia/Bane (this feels like it should be a Joker role) in the upcoming battle. Choosing to fight for Gotham and letting Gotham sort itself out instead of destroying it. They both agree that Gotham needs to be cleansed, but differ on the means of doing so.

There's a ton of full circle moments in the movie series, but in all the loss of the Joker is probably what makes the execution seem sloppy. I think they could have appeased the crowd with a flash to a man in Arkham with his back turned to the camera, but you could tell the greasy hair was the Joker. Just to help fans figure out where to put the arch-rival of Batman's.

I suggest seeing it again. There's a lot of good plot points that are fleshed out--- Talia's acting looks more deceptive the second time around. The whole time they (Bane/Talia) knew everything.

I hope Gordon-Levitt takes the Batman role over instead of being Robin/Nightwing.

I would love to see Zsasz and the Riddler (think of some manic RCMBer with a grudge against Batman). Blake seems like he's more of a natural detective than Bruce was and the mental games between Z and the Riddler would make for a good thriller.

Posted this in the 'emoticon short story' thread, as well. Let me know how accurate you guys think this is:

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Me watching The Dark Knight Rises

I honestly thought this was the worst movie of the trilogy. There were so many points in the movie where you couldn't understand Bane and the guy in the prison wasn't the easiest to understand either. When you have a $250,000,000+ budget, the last thing the audience should have to worry about is understanding what the characters are saying.

I'd say damn near zero. You can't have Robin without it being Dick Grayson (or maybe Tim Drake)...a cop who's first name is Robin is too far from the books for it to really get steam.

They're already planning the reboot of Batman. I don't see how any Justice League movies get created for a number of years because Nolan is attached to Man of Steel and he doesn't want to do that, so...i don't think DC is going to be partnering anyone up.

I'm hoping they make a new GL movie. The first one was okay...but it mostly just set up what could be a great sequel.

Maybe we can all get fellow Spartan Geoff Johns to do more?

See, I think this was the best of the three. It's the most complete story arc for Bruce (and you can argue that Nolan's Batman movies are actually Bruce Wayne movies), and has the most weight to the story. Bane is clearly the baddest of the bad guys, even though he feels more like a force of nature than a true character. Everything just feels bigger, more ominous, and more at risk.

I love Begins, but it was the beginning of the series and had its share of clunky scenes - even some of the great iconic "Batman moments" (like hanging Flass off the building, rescuing Rachel from Arkham) had some awkward moments that felt just a little off. Plus the main threat doesn't have a sense of gravitas to it - yes, there are serious threats to Bruce/Batman, but it just it doesn't feel like the death of Gotham is ever truly imminent. The focus of the movie was Bruce figuring out who Batman is, which ends up feeling more exploratory than epic.

Dark Knight is being wildly overrated in this thread too. Excellent film, but it's not even a movie about Batman - it's about the Joker, for crying out loud. He gets more screen time than Batman, and he develops more as a character than Bruce/Batman does (who is very static in this film - hardly changes at all from beginning to end). Again, some awesome iconic moments, but Ledger's amazing awesomeness as Joker ends up stealing the movie away from Bruce/Batman. Plus, in this movie Bruce/Batman ends up relying on his gadgets more than anything else, which I think weakens it. Don't get me wrong - as a Batman fan I love this film, but I think it needs to be taken for what it is: a Joker movie featuring Batman, not the other way around.

In the end, I think Rises has the strongest "Batman moments" (Bane breaking him, every scene with Selina Kyle), and I think Bruce/Batman ends up relying on his own wherewithal to succeed, more than gadgetry and fortuitousness, which leads to a stronger sense of who he is. It gives the most complete character arc for Bruce/Batman, and ends up providing an excellent "Nolanized" ending: a big reveal, the right loose ends wrapped up, some nods to source material, and hints at future events. Just feels like the right way to end.

as fox said earlier in the series

"you gotta get busy living, or get busy dying."

I disagree with your opinion that The Dark Knight was weaker than this film.

I think Ledger's out of this world performance overshadows how great the rest of the cast, including their story, was to the film. In the Dark Knight, Bruce/Batman is tested on moral fronts. The way Batman realizes he has no limits leads to hubris and seeps into Bruce's life. Bruce is challenged and fails to restrain the facilitation of infidelity with Rachel. He, like his alter ego, believe they are invincible. In the end, his rash arrogance gets two people he holds in reverence killed.

To me, one of the brilliant points of the entire trilogy is it can serve as an allegory on life itself.

Batman Begins is a film about the birth and youthful exuberance of embracing something new; becoming comfortable with what you are. In Bruce's case, it's becoming Batman.

The Dark Knight is about believing you are invincible (as many young adults do) and realizing you may not have all the right answers. Bruce/Batman believes they are above reproach in getting what they want, be it Rachel, a criminal in China, or the location of hostages.

The Dark Knight Rises is about understanding you aren't invincible. You realize your mortality and that, in and of itself, enriches the life you have remaining. It allows you to understand your legacy and potential for immortality (remember Ras Al Ghul's quote, "There's more than one way to be immortal, Bruce.") It is about passing your legacy on to the next person.

I am interpreting it a certain way and I'm sure it's a series that's open to many interpretations. It's an incredibly layered trilogy and echoes the depth of the writing.

no...i'm pretty sure that happened in Batman Begins, right before this scene.

Well said. I largely agree with you on this (while still holding that TDK isn't quite as good as TDKR).

I know rumors are swirling about rebooting the Batman franchise relatively quickly, but I just can't see anyone with any sense who would want to follow in Nolan's footsteps. I know these aren't really "superhero" movies in their truest sense, and therefore you could easily shift the focus when redoing them and be different enough to be successful, but, man... They just seem so definitive. Like, this is the last word that ever needs to be spoken when it comes to this character. Amen.

This is going to sound very comic book dorky, as a warning in advance.

Your statements about it being Bruce's story, in these films, are absolutely correct. That's totally different from the comics, at least it has been since Denny O'Neill took over the character in the mid-70s. Their take is that Bruce Wayne died the moment his parents did, and that Batman was born. In the comics, Batman never has any hope of no longer being Batman or ever having a normal life.

Nolan planted the seeds late in Begins that the possibility was out there for Bruce to stop being Batman. It's one of the major plot lines of Dark Knight. And obviously, it's the entire point of Rises. Many of the hard core comic people are very upset with the ending, because their interpretation of Batman is that of an obsessed loner in a hopeless struggle. They wanted Bruce to stay as Batman, or die defending the city. Neither fit in with Nolan's take, which has at least a couple of toes in reality (obviously no story about a man dressing up like a bat has any true basis in reality).

Rises is in many ways a very bleak film until the last few scenes. But it ties up, at the very end, (maybe too quickly) the Bruce Wayne story in Nolan's interpretation. I'm sure things changed considerably when Ledger died and took Joker with him (the best Batman stories, with a few exceptions, all feature Joker in some way), but I still think it would have ended much the same, with Bruce Wayne moving past being Batman,and someone else taking up the mantle.

It's a great finish to a truly great trilogy. I understand people saying Dark Knight was better, and I think that's beside the point. That movie was largely about Joker and Dent, and Rises was largely a movie about Bruce Wayne. Can't wait to see it again.

No surprise there...