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The difference between MD and Hoke recruiting wise

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    I provided a list that showed the common recruits since Hoke was hired and where the kids went. Not my fault more went to one school over the other. You think the coaches weren't clearly interested by offering? I do think they were clearly interested.

    The rest, not relevent.

    Why is it not relevant? Because you said so? Like I said dude, go to MGoBlog with that same "the coaches were clearly interested" bullshit while all your buddies (and most likely you) spout off about how Hoke and Mattison cooled on a propsect with a Michigan offer that committed somewhere else. Practice what you preach.

    These kids are going to Michigan because kids like Matt Godin and Wyatt Shallman grow up eating hot dogs and M&Ms while wearing Drew Henson jerseys as boys at the Big House while their parents and grandparents had season tickets. You need to acknowledge pre-existing loyalties with many of these kids. Especially the in-state kids. There's nothing MSU can do with many of them. The offer isn't worth the 8x11 it's written on. They are blue from the beginning, yet you act like these recruits come into their offers with the idea that everyone is starting on the same level. That is simply not the case. MSU is far behind already in those cases and you can't make up years of entrenched loyalty over an 18-month recruiting period. With Cass Tech kids and Godin, Shallman and Morris, you are not making an argument for Hoke's recruiting ability as much as you are essentially arguing that more people in southeast Michigan grow up Michigan fans than MSU fans.

    And to answer your question specifically... No, I do not think the MSU coaches were interested in Richardson in particular. I would bet money that Robinson, Edmondson and Cox were all higher on the board.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by Lunchables on 4/1/2012 at 7:18 PM

    Lunchables

  • Lunchables said...

    Why is it not relevant? Because you said so? Like I said dude, go to MGoBlog with that same "the coaches were clearly interested" bullshit while all your buddies (and most likely you) spout off about how Hoke and Mattison cooled on a propsect with a Michigan offer that committed somewhere else. Practice what you preach.

    These kids are going to Michigan because kids like Matt Godin and Wyatt Shallman grow up eating hot dogs and M&Ms while wearing Drew Henson jerseys as boys at the Big House while their parents and grandparents had season tickets. You need to acknowledge pre-existing loyalties with many of these kids. Especially the in-state kids. There's nothing MSU can do with many of them. The offer isn't worth the 8x11 it's written on. They are blue from the beginning, yet you act like these recruits come into their offers with the idea that everyone is starting on the same level. That is simply not the case. MSU is far behind already in those cases and you can't make up years of entrenched loyalty over an 18-month recruiting period.

    And to answer your question specifically... No, I do not think the MSU coaches were interested in Richardson in particular. I would bet money that Robinson, Edmondson and Cox were all higher on the board.

    Ya we love cox.

    But seriously. Hoke has been getting some solid recruits and has beat us out for a bunch of kids. But I love the classes Dantonio had been putting together, and until hoke can prove that he can beat us I don't really care.

    RIP tRCMB

    MR Universe19299 ●

  • the recruiting philosophies between Hoke and Dantonio are completely different

    Hoke seems to just hand out scholarships like they're candy

    while Dantonio likes to take his time and actually meet his recruits face to face before offering them

    TPain151807 ●

  • Big M said...

    I do see your point. It seems a bit absurd to count a Cass Tech kid as a "victory" for Hoke. I'll concede that.

    It is somewhat counter-intuitive it seems to me though, at least in certain cases like Pipkins or Strobel- you are basically saying that if a kid doesn't have MSU in their top 3-4 schools, then it isn't a loss. I'm pretty sure MSU recruited Pipkins very hard- I think it is spin to say that wasn't a loss for MSU.

    This is fair Big M, I'm impressed with your seeming objectivity.

    In this light, I don't think UM is beating MSU at faster rate than three other schools that we've lost some big time battles to.

    Iowa beat us out on Jaleel Johnson and others.

    OSU beat us with Pittman and Dodson.

    Wisconsin beat us on Ramesh.

    PSU beat us on Breneman.

    ND beat us on Perkins and Elmer.

    We have also beat these teams on recruits. But it's important to notice a trend here; these are the best teams in the Midwest, of course we're going to lose some recruiting battles. I still feel very confident in the talent being brought in.

    Another thing that I think is important is the intelligence of Brady Hoke. The biggest complaint about RR was that he just didn't get it, he didn't know how to be a "Michigan Man". Well that is one thing that Hokasaurus understands EXTREMELY well. He knows his audience and fanbase to a T. He knows what you guys do and don't care about. And he knows that you LOVE your recruiting championships. I suspect that this is why he does not offer players like Reschke and Norman, because he knows they aren't headed his way so he doesn't want to take the PR shot for nothing. Meanwhile, Dantonio also knows his fanbase EXTREMELY well and knows that not nearly as many of us care about star ratings and proclaimed program saviors. See, we're of the "just win baby" variety. Therefore, he has nothing to lose by offering the heavy UM leans. He also knows that the day that he happens to flip one of those leans, those Spartans who do follow recruiting will give him heavy praise for it.

    So you see?
    Don't get me wrong, Hoke has won several battles over Dantonio recently, and has done quite well for himself. But the ratio, IMO, is heavily skewed due to the above stated factors.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Jandy said...

    This is fair Big M, I'm impressed with your seeming objectivity.

    In this light, I don't think UM is beating MSU at faster rate than three other schools that we've lost some big time battles to.

    Iowa beat us out on Jaleel Johnson and others.

    OSU beat us with Pittman and Dodson.

    Wisconsin beat us on Ramesh.

    PSU beat us on Breneman.

    ND beat us on Perkins and Elmer.

    We have also beat these teams on recruits. But it's important to notice a trend here; these are the best teams in the Midwest, of course we're going to lose some recruiting battles. I still feel very confident in the talent being brought in.

    Another thing that I think is important is the intelligence of Brady Hoke. The biggest complaint about RR was that he just didn't get it, he didn't know how to be a "Michigan Man". Well that is one thing that Hokasaurus understands EXTREMELY well. He knows his audience and fanbase to a T. He knows what you guys do and don't care about. And he knows that you LOVE your recruiting championships. I suspect that this is why he does not offer players like Reschke and Norman, because he knows they aren't headed his way so he doesn't want to take the PR shot for nothing. Meanwhile, Dantonio also knows his fanbase EXTREMELY well and knows that not nearly as many of us care about star ratings and proclaimed program saviors. See, we're of the "just win baby" variety. Therefore, he has nothing to lose by offering the heavy UM leans. He also knows that the day that he happens to flip one of those leans, those Spartans who do follow recruiting will give him heavy praise for it.

    So you see?
    Don't get me wrong, Hoke has won several battles over Dantonio recently, and has done quite well for himself. But the ratio, IMO, is heavily skewed due to the above stated factors.

    Jamal Lyles is another example.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Jandy said...

    Jamal Lyles is another example.

    An example of what?

    Big M

  • Jandy said...

    This is fair Big M, I'm impressed with your seeming objectivity.

    In this light, I don't think UM is beating MSU at faster rate than three other schools that we've lost some big time battles to.

    Iowa beat us out on Jaleel Johnson and others.

    OSU beat us with Pittman and Dodson.

    Wisconsin beat us on Ramesh.

    PSU beat us on Breneman.

    ND beat us on Perkins and Elmer.

    We have also beat these teams on recruits. But it's important to notice a trend here; these are the best teams in the Midwest, of course we're going to lose some recruiting battles. I still feel very confident in the talent being brought in.

    Another thing that I think is important is the intelligence of Brady Hoke. The biggest complaint about RR was that he just didn't get it, he didn't know how to be a "Michigan Man". Well that is one thing that Hokasaurus understands EXTREMELY well. He knows his audience and fanbase to a T. He knows what you guys do and don't care about. And he knows that you LOVE your recruiting championships. I suspect that this is why he does not offer players like Reschke and Norman, because he knows they aren't headed his way so he doesn't want to take the PR shot for nothing. Meanwhile, Dantonio also knows his fanbase EXTREMELY well and knows that not nearly as many of us care about star ratings and proclaimed program saviors. See, we're of the "just win baby" variety. Therefore, he has nothing to lose by offering the heavy UM leans. He also knows that the day that he happens to flip one of those leans, those Spartans who do follow recruiting will give him heavy praise for it.

    So you see?
    Don't get me wrong, Hoke has won several battles over Dantonio recently, and has done quite well for himself. But the ratio, IMO, is heavily skewed due to the above stated factors.

    I don't thnk coaches care about that stuff.

    Harry Callahan

  • Harry Callahan said...

    I don't thnk coaches care about that stuff.

    About PR? About exciting a fanbase? I think RR didn't care, and it was part of the reason he was fired. Dantonio and Hoke do care, I believe, and I believe it's part of why they're successful.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Big M said...

    An example of what?

    Of a player Hoke didn't officially offer because he surmised that he didn't have good odds of landing.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Jandy said...

    About PR? About exciting a fanbase? I think RR didn't care, and it was part of the reason he was fired. Dantonio and Hoke do care, I believe, and I believe it's part of why they're successful.

    RR was fired because he took UM through its worst 3 year stretch in modern history. People can talk about the lack of support and not being a "Michigan Man" all they want, but the reason people wanted him fired is because he won 8 games his first 2 years.

    Big M

  • Jandy said...

    Of a player Hoke didn't officially offer because he surmised that he didn't have good odds of landing.

    When he committed to MSU, Michigan had already received commitments from 4 LB's. They were full. I realize they apparently showed some interest later on as a TE prospect, but Lyles does not seem like a very good example for your theory. Reschke/Norman are better examples, though I think an equally plausible explanation is UM just had other OT's and LB's higher on their board early on..which is also what I assume was the case with Dantonio not offering Dawson and Lewis.

    Big M

  • Big M said...

    When he committed to MSU, Michigan had already received commitments from 4 LB's. They were full. I realize they apparently showed some interest later on as a TE prospect, but Lyles does not seem like a very good example for your theory. Reschke/Norman are better examples, though I think an equally plausible explanation is UM just had other OT's and LB's higher on their board early on..which is also what I assume was the case with Dantonio not offering Dawson and Lewis.

    Honest question Big M.

    How much do you really think you know about recruiting and the specifics that go on with various 16 and 17 year old kids?

    Sure, you know more than the average guy but come on... you really believe half the shit that's spewed on these message boards? I feel like after a while people take it as fact. Two of the Michigan d-bags over on the blue board are teenagers. They were toddlers when Woodson was at Michigan.

    These recruiting debates always entertain me. It's a bunch of guys that are nowhere near being close to the programs they cheer for arguing over kids they will never meet. Yet, they know all about how the recruitment went down, the phone calls, the in home visits, all that good stuff.

    Hilarious.

    Harry Callahan

  • MR. Universe said...

    Ya we love cox.

    But seriously. Hoke has been getting some solid recruits and has beat us out for a bunch of kids. But I love the classes Dantonio had been putting together, and until hoke can prove that he can beat us I don't really care.

    Define bunch please. Is it 3? And he was beat out on 2? Got it.

    UM, Green Bay and Chicago teams all have one thing in common: They all suck

    Clemenza

  • D.Wags said...

    However if you ask any fanbase they will tell you who is the most obnoxious. For the plythora of reasons mentioned numerous times on all of your rivals fan boards, congratulations on recruiting rankings victories. They are every bit as impressive as September heismans. Until we actually see something on the field please forgive some of us for being non- plussed

    I have always heard ancedontal evidence that other B10 (aside from just OSU and MSU) fans hate UM. They also describe the UM fan base as arrogant, delusional and obnoxious.

    From my own experience with UM fans (excluding alumni) that is pretty accurate.

    Has anyone seen a survey of B10 fans regading the most obnoxious fan base? I think the Vadger fan base must rank pretty high on the A hole scale as well.

    Συν ται η επι ται! Syn tai e epi tai! Ή ταν ή επί τας! E tan i epi tas!

    CVSpartan

  • Lunchables said...

    Your problem is that you assume kids that grew up blue would actually give State the time of fucking day. Jenkins-Stone did say that, but he would have bounced to Oklahoma before going to MSU. You seriously believe Wilcher would have allowed that? Wake up. If you are looking at these battles strictly through an offer sheet, then by all means take a shallow view. If you want to look at Cass Tech's track record of blue kids and Godin and Shallman's history, then you will see that these guys aren't even worth throwing into the mix of kids who Michigan "beat" MSU for.

    You're simply bragging about kids who you've had locked up since they were seven years old playing Pop Warner and sleeping on M pillowcases. Thumbs up to your program for securing their commitments.

    If they grew up wanting to play for UM, how is that on Wilcher? May be one or both parents went to UMshrug

    Ron_in_ATL

  • I get the sense Team Hoke doesn't put much into kids they think are locks for another school. That's probably smart. It maximized your resources where it counts.

    I think though it's interesting it seems they don't even offer kids they think are MSU bound. Not sure if they do the same for other kids or if it's just MSU. This tells me they they're overly sensitive on seeing UM offers next to kids that go to MSU.

    This post was edited by dagomike on 4/2/2012 at 7:31 AM

    dagomike ●

  • Big M said...

    When he committed to MSU, Michigan had already received commitments from 4 LB's. They were full. I realize they apparently showed some interest later on as a TE prospect, but Lyles does not seem like a very good example for your theory. Reschke/Norman are better examples, though I think an equally plausible explanation is UM just had other OT's and LB's higher on their board early on..which is also what I assume was the case with Dantonio not offering Dawson and Lewis.

    Saying Hoke "showed some interest" in Jamal is a ridiculous understatement. Lyles had a scholarship offer from Michigan. The Michigan staff was frequently sending Lyles mail and calling him on the phone even AFTER his commitment to MSU. It was one of the most heated battles over an in-state recruit last year, second only to Burbridge. Try to spin it however you want, but Michigan wanted Lyles bad; he'd just rather be a Spartan.

    signature image

    tRCMB's resident Wayne State Warrior and Sam's Club Spartan fan.

    fishrose

  • fishrose said...

    Saying Hoke "showed some interest" in Jamal is a ridiculous understatement. Lyles had a scholarship offer from Michigan. The Michigan staff was frequently sending Lyles mail and calling him on the phone even AFTER his commitment to MSU. It was one of the most heated battles over an in-state recruit last year, second only to Burbridge. Try to spin it however you want, but Michigan wanted Lyles bad; he'd just rather be a Spartan.


    Guess we will have to take your word on Lyles over the 4 main recruiting services. Not one of them list Lyles as having a Michigan offer, but fishrose has the inside word on it over them I guess.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • CVSpartan said...

    So what? How does that compare to recruits with UM and MSU offers during the DickRod era?

    Granted DickRod didn't always offer the same recruits - particularly on offense.

    Alright, I looked it up on Rivals. Before Hoke was hired it went like this.

    2011 cycle 3 for Michigan, 4 for MSU. The Michigan recruits were Brennen Beyer, Justice Hayes, and Jack Miller. The MSU recrutis were Ed Davis, Damon Knox, Onaje Miller, and Lawrence Thomas.

    2010 cycle was 6 for Michigan, 5 for MSU. The Michigan recruits were Jibreel Black, Devin Gardner, Christian Pace, Davion Rogers, Terry Talbott, and Austin White. The MSU recruits were Kurtis Drummond, William Gholston, Mylan Hicks, Marcus Rush, and Skylar Schofner.

    2009 cycle was 2 for Michigan, 4 for MSU. The Michigan recruits were Thomas Gordon and Justin Turner. The MSU recruits were Edwin Baker, Larry Caper, Chris Norman, and Dion Sims.

    So, in the time period before Hoke there were 24 recruits with offers from both schools, 11 went to Michigan and 13 went to MSU. Since Hoke was hired there have been 22 recruits with offers from both schools, 20 went to Michigan and 2 went to MSU.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • Lyles was quoted in the freep or detnews about calls from Hoke and Co. even after verbal to MSU.

    msuander

  • msuander said...

    Lyles was quoted in the freep or detnews about calls from Hoke and Co. even after verbal to MSU.

    That is common in recruiting, talk to the recruit to gauge interest, but no offer was ever given from Michigan according to the recruiting sites. Here is quote from an analyst at the Michigan site today talking about recruiting and what recruits see after they commit.

    "LTT also told me that all the other programs have pretty much stopped talking to him because he is 100% solid to Michigan. A lot of times that's not the case with a high profile recruit like him, teams tend to fight for recruits whether they are committed or not all the way until he signs that LOI."

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • Just thought I'd throw this in here. Urban flipped a 4 star on rivals/3 star on 247 from WVU today.

    SpartanHoops

  • T-Pain said...

    the recruiting philosophies between Hoke and Dantonio are completely different

    Hoke seems to just hand out scholarships like they're candy

    while Dantonio likes to take his time and actually meet his recruits face to face before offering them

    According to 247sports, Michigan has 107 offers out to recruits, MSU has 77 offers out to recruits. Not a huge difference.

    The face to face would hold water but you seem to be forgetting that Caleb Benenoch recently committed without ever being on campus, I believe.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • SpartanHoops said...

    Just thought I'd throw this in here. Urban flipped a 4 star on rivals/3 star on 247 from WVU today.

    That recruitment was weird. He originally committed to WVU with a hat ceremony. He had a Michigan and ND hat on the table, with no offer from either school at the time.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • msuander said...

    Lyles was quoted in the freep or detnews about calls from Hoke and Co. even after verbal to MSU.

    From 247:

    "**Richardson’s potential future coach, Brady Hoke, is still trying to add a pair of Spartan commitments to the Wolverines Class of 2012 haul. Both wide receiver Aaron Burbridge and outside linebacker Jamal Lyles say Michigan has not stopped its pursuit for their name on the dotted line.

    “Michigan is still trying to talk to me and get me to switch,” Burbridge said. “They send me a lot of mail and try to talk to me but I'm not paying attention to them at all. They even try to message me on Facebook and ask me questions but I don't reply. Nebraska and few other programs also send me a lot of mail. I'm a Spartan and I know that's where I'm going to college at.”

    Said Lyles: “Illinois and Michigan are still trying to recruit me. Michigan hasn't tried to call me but they send me a lot of mail and are trying to get me to come to a game. They might get some other guys to pull away but I'm 100-percent committed to Michigan State.” "

    F Michigan

    AASpartan ●

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