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The difference between MD and Hoke recruiting wise

  • 82msuspartan said...

    I am afraid you might be right and I will get slammed for posting this but the facts can be checked on 247 and rivals. I checked the claim about head to head recruiting and the only 2 kids MSU landed in the 12 and 13 class that acutaully had UM offers were Madaris and Burbridge. I think they were involved with some of the other kids like Lyles, Reschke(legacy) and Cox but they did not recieve offers. Probably because UM was full at those positions. On the flip side we offered 14 in their 2012 class and 5 from their 2013 class. That makes the count 19-2. Many of those 19 kids that we offered would probably have not been recruited hard by Rich Rod so it seems to reason that a few of those would have landed in our lap if RR was still around especially the OLmen. RR wanted smaller linemen fit for spread offense and most of the road graders would have been turned off by his system. Thats why UM did so poorly in that area under RR. There is no way Kalis, Bosch and Kugler would have signed on with Rich Rod in that system. And can anyone see Shane Morris running the Rich Rod spread? He has been the key to the 12 and 13 classes for UM. jmho

    OMG!

    Get over your UM inferiority complex. How do the head to head matchups with MSU and OSU work? How about MSU vs. GA, MSU vs. USC, MSU vs. ND, MSU vs. PSU? I suspect the other schools listed won most of those match ups too. Yet the players MSU was somehow able to scrape up were still able to win 11 games 2 years in a row.

    We are doomed! Doomed I tell you!

    panic

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by CVSpartan on 3/31/2012 at 7:57 PM

    Συν ται η επι ται! Syn tai e epi tai! Ή ταν ή επί τας! E tan i epi tas!

    CVSpartan

  • Tanfan said...

    It's unfortunate your post will get attacked by the fanboys on here. The reality is the talent gap will show in a few years. You have to have balls to post anything outside of the happy happy joy club because they attack like a pride of lions. They get really offended by your honesty. Many people I've talked to share your concerns, they just don't post on here.

    The problem is that it really shows that some fans have no faith in the coaching staff. Recruiting rankings are basically worthless after the kids get on campus. I'm not certain how anyone can claim there is a "talent gap" without actually seeing in-game performance. They are just leaning way too heavily on a flawed system and using that to prop up an argument.Of course calling everyone that doesn't agree with you a "fanboy" or in the "happy happy joy club" is also an effective tool.

    F Michigan

    AASpartan

  • mkerlin321 said...

    Texas problem is that they don't have a QB. The can't miss local kid Garret Gilbert either couldn't handle it or wasn't as good as everyone says. Case McCoy is not his brother and David Ash was just a freshman. They have a good defense and a couple of good running backs, once they find a guy that can distribute the ball they will be back to normal. Ash will get better with experience and they have 'the next Vince Young' committed. QB play means a whole lot in football.

    I agree that qb has been a problem. If you take highly ranked recruits to lean on them early you will be at risk of totally losing them mentally. Gilbert is a great example. Texas has enough talent to win the Big12 every year. They didn't develop that talent and it came back to hurt them the past few years.

    signature image

    Spartan8Ball

  • MD and Hoke in the title = automatic 100 post thread.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Btothejizer ●

  • mkerlin321 said...

    Texas problem is that they don't have a QB. The can't miss local kid Garret Gilbert either couldn't handle it or wasn't as good as everyone says. Case McCoy is not his brother and David Ash was just a freshman. They have a good defense and a couple of good running backs, once they find a guy that can distribute the ball they will be back to normal. Ash will get better with experience and they have "the next Vince Young" committed. QB play means a whole lot in football.

    Texas forgot how to run the ball. I do believe Colt was their leading rusher his senior year.

    Ron_in_ATL

  • Tanfan said...

    It's unfortunate your post will get attacked by the fanboys on here. The reality is the talent gap will show in a few years. You have to have balls to post anything outside of the happy happy joy club because they attack like a pride of lions. They get really offended by your honesty. Many people I've talked to share your concerns, they just don't post on here.

    Nobody gives a shit what you think

    signature image signature image signature image

    Punisher99

  • Punisher99 said...

    Nobody gives a shit what you think

    Bud Light: Here We Go...

    signature image

    Spartan8Ball

  • Heat Miser said...

    Yale/Harvard/Army & others used to be the same. Things change (see Izzo, Tom). They might not change with SCum football, but you never know.

    I believe the one thing MSU still needs under MD is a legitimate Heisman contender. Somebody who will draw eyeballs every week. Ringer was close. Maybe Bell will be the one. Maybe even Gholston. shrug

    Just drove 20 hours non-stop from Orlando so hope this makes sense.

    Heat is right on to an extent. We not only need the Heisman winner, but take advantage of our oportunities the next few years.

    Maxwell is the one who has the chance to shine/deliver the statue. The next two years we should have a strong O-line, good running backs and talented but inexperienced WR. Maxwell however is the key. He has had the benefit of 3 years in a STABLE system. He has the tools and from what I gather the moxie. Combine that with a D the can be elite and you have your potential Heisman. State has not put their last three QB's in the league by fluke and I contend Maxwell has as much potential as the other three. Maxwell for Heisman...Sounds good to me.

    Now to the opportunities. We play a great schedule next year with an experienced, talented and I believe hungry team. A team that believes in itself. While, getting back to the thread topic, scum faces a lot of uncertainty. Their lines arte young and thin. They lose all their top performers. They still are running a hybrid system which does not mesh with their coaches long term philosophies.

    Who will be their QB in 2013, Gardnier or Morris. How long will their young O-line/D-line recruits take to jell. They will jell, but we will still be jelling as well. We have depth and development, they have wholesale changes.

    I will be in aa again this year expecting to see a third straight win in aa.

    If um has a poor season this year, followed by a mea season the following, while we rock...I expect things will have changed. The rest of the country has taken notice. Spartans are recognized nationally more than we ourselves acknowleged.

    State is in an extremely strong position right now. Hollis/Izzo/Dantonio.....Bring it on Brandon.

    The next two years, we hold the advantage. Maxwell is the key.....I like what I see.

    northandwells

  • ain't sayin' hoke's a genius, but he's been smart. he's relied on the 'brand'.based on 'stars',etc. it(his recruiting strategy) seems to be working.UM's got a ton of historic momentum in it's favor. does not mean that they will re-establish their historical dominance in the rivalry, but it's clear that coach D's got his work cut out. go green( and white).

    This post was edited by riflefl21918 on 4/1/2012 at 1:22 AM

    riflefl21918

  • Steely Dan said...

    I'd like to believe it, but we'll just have to see. We're fine now, but two years down the road it looks like there will be some issues on the lines for sure. It's not that we'll necessarily be much worse, but everyone else is going to pass us. The Big Ten is in the midst of somewhat of a resurgence.

    Hahaha. You are so uneducated its disturbing. You know NOTHING about our depth chart if you truly believe this.

    signature image

    laconophilia is everywhere... http://www.msu-umbig10.com/

    Jandy

  • Punisher99 said...

    Nobody gives a shit what you think

    Lol. More pics of your mom
    And sister there stud.

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

  • 82msuspartan said...

    I am afraid you might be right and I will get slammed for posting this but the facts can be checked on 247 and rivals. I checked the claim about head to head recruiting and the only 2 kids MSU landed in the 12 and 13 class that acutaully had UM offers were Madaris and Burbridge. I think they were involved with some of the other kids like Lyles, Reschke(legacy) and Cox but they did not recieve offers. Probably because UM was full at those positions. On the flip side we offered 14 in their 2012 class and 5 from their 2013 class. That makes the count 19-2. Many of those 19 kids that we offered would probably have not been recruited hard by Rich Rod so it seems to reason that a few of those would have landed in our lap if RR was still around especially the OLmen. RR wanted smaller linemen fit for spread offense and most of the road graders would have been turned off by his system. Thats why UM did so poorly in that area under RR. There is no way Kalis, Bosch and Kugler would have signed on with Rich Rod in that system. And can anyone see Shane Morris running the Rich Rod spread? He has been the key to the 12 and 13 classes for UM. jmho

    You miss the point. Naturally top OL prospects and DL prospects for that matter will look at scUM first. Because of RR's recruiting and all the Hoking, they are desperately short of bodies on both lines. These kids can come in and start right away. At MSU it's a redshirt for sure and no guarantee after that for playing time. There's a reason we've whomped them 4 years in a row, because we've kicked their arses in the trenches. Who did you think they would choose? Where they can play right away or where they will sit for sure?

    Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity. - Frank Leahy.-- If you're going to be stupid, be smart about it. - Mike Milbury

    Bullwrinkle

  • 82msuspartan said...

    I am afraid you might be right and I will get slammed for posting this but the facts can be checked on 247 and rivals. I checked the claim about head to head recruiting and the only 2 kids MSU landed in the 12 and 13 class that acutaully had UM offers were Madaris and Burbridge. I think they were involved with some of the other kids like Lyles, Reschke(legacy) and Cox but they did not recieve offers. Probably because UM was full at those positions. On the flip side we offered 14 in their 2012 class and 5 from their 2013 class. That makes the count 19-2. Many of those 19 kids that we offered would probably have not been recruited hard by Rich Rod so it seems to reason that a few of those would have landed in our lap if RR was still around especially the OLmen. RR wanted smaller linemen fit for spread offense and most of the road graders would have been turned off by his system. Thats why UM did so poorly in that area under RR. There is no way Kalis, Bosch and Kugler would have signed on with Rich Rod in that system. And can anyone see Shane Morris running the Rich Rod spread? He has been the key to the 12 and 13 classes for UM. jmho

    Since the day Hoke was hired, there have been 23 kids who have committed to either Michigan or MSU with offers from the respected schools.

    In the 2011 class, Frank Clark committed to Michigan after Hoke was hird.

    2012 recruits that went to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Jarrod Wilson, Andre Pipkins, Chris Wormley, James Ross, Terry Richardson, Dennis Norfleet, Amara Darboh, Royce Jenkins-Stone (he flat out said that if RichRod was the coach he wouldn't have committed to Michigan), Tom Strobel, Matt Godin, Devin Funchess, Ben Braden, Mario Ojemudia, AJ Williams.

    2013 recruits that have verbaled to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Shane Morris, Dymonte Thomas, Kyle Bosch, Patrick Kulger, Wyatt Shallman,.

    2012 commits that went to MSU with Michigan offer, Aaron Burbridge and Monty Madaris.

    No verbals to MSU with Michigan offers so far for the 2013 cycle.

    Since Hoke's hire, 20 kids to Michigan, 2 kids to MSU with offers from both school.

    xxmgobluexx

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Since the day Hoke was hired, there have been 23 kids who have committed to either Michigan or MSU with offers from the respected schools.

    In the 2011 class, Frank Clark committed to Michigan after Hoke was hird.

    2012 recruits that went to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Jarrod Wilson, Andre Pipkins, Chris Wormley, James Ross, Terry Richardson, Dennis Norfleet, Amara Darboh, Royce Jenkins-Stone (he flat out said that if RichRod was the coach he wouldn't have committed to Michigan), Tom Strobel, Matt Godin, Devin Funchess, Ben Braden, Mario Ojemudia, AJ Williams.

    2013 recruits that have verbaled to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Shane Morris, Dymonte Thomas, Kyle Bosch, Patrick Kulger, Wyatt Shallman,.

    2012 commits that went to MSU with Michigan offer, Aaron Burbridge and Monty Madaris.

    No verbals to MSU with Michigan offers so far for the 2013 cycle.

    Since Hoke's hire, 20 kids to Michigan, 2 kids to MSU with offers from both school.

    So what? How does that compare to recruits with UM and MSU offers during the DickRod era?

    Granted DickRod didn't always offer the same recruits - particularly on offense.

    Συν ται η επι ται! Syn tai e epi tai! Ή ταν ή επί τας! E tan i epi tas!

    CVSpartan

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Since the day Hoke was hired, there have been 23 kids who have committed to either Michigan or MSU with offers from the respected schools.

    In the 2011 class, Frank Clark committed to Michigan after Hoke was hird.

    2012 recruits that went to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Jarrod Wilson, Andre Pipkins, Chris Wormley, James Ross, Terry Richardson, Dennis Norfleet, Amara Darboh, Royce Jenkins-Stone (he flat out said that if RichRod was the coach he wouldn't have committed to Michigan), Tom Strobel, Matt Godin, Devin Funchess, Ben Braden, Mario Ojemudia, AJ Williams.

    2013 recruits that have verbaled to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Shane Morris, Dymonte Thomas, Kyle Bosch, Patrick Kulger, Wyatt Shallman,.

    2012 commits that went to MSU with Michigan offer, Aaron Burbridge and Monty Madaris.

    No verbals to MSU with Michigan offers so far for the 2013 cycle.

    Since Hoke's hire, 20 kids to Michigan, 2 kids to MSU with offers from both school.

    Coincidentally, there will be 20 disappointed kids who had offers from both schools, and only 2 happy ones.

    aroz13

  • Bullwrinkle said...

    You miss the point. Naturally top OL prospects and DL prospects for that matter will look at scUM first. Because of RR's recruiting and all the Hoking, they are desperately short of bodies on both lines. These kids can come in and start right away. At MSU it's a redshirt for sure and no guarantee after that for playing time. There's a reason we've whomped them 4 years in a row, because we've kicked their arses in the trenches. Who did you think they would choose? Where they can play right away or where they will sit for sure?

    Who will play right away this year? 4/5 star Kyle Kalis on the oline? 4/5 Andre Pipkins on the dline? That should be it, outside of injuries.

    If you read some of the interviews of the commits, nobody was offered immediate playing time. All playing time is earned.

    xxmgobluexx

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Since the day Hoke was hired, there have been 23 kids who have committed to either Michigan or MSU with offers from the respected schools.

    In the 2011 class, Frank Clark committed to Michigan after Hoke was hird.

    2012 recruits that went to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Jarrod Wilson, Andre Pipkins, Chris Wormley, James Ross, Terry Richardson, Dennis Norfleet, Amara Darboh, Royce Jenkins-Stone (he flat out said that if RichRod was the coach he wouldn't have committed to Michigan), Tom Strobel, Matt Godin, Devin Funchess, Ben Braden, Mario Ojemudia, AJ Williams.

    2013 recruits that have verbaled to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Shane Morris, Dymonte Thomas, Kyle Bosch, Patrick Kulger, Wyatt Shallman,.

    2012 commits that went to MSU with Michigan offer, Aaron Burbridge and Monty Madaris.

    No verbals to MSU with Michigan offers so far for the 2013 cycle.

    Since Hoke's hire, 20 kids to Michigan, 2 kids to MSU with offers from both school.

    A paper program touting paper results.

    "Losing Benenoch is a mortal blow from which this program can't recover"-T-Pain

    Rogue Leader

  • CVSpartan said...

    So what? How does that compare to recruits with UM and MSU offers during the DickRod era?

    Granted DickRod didn't always offer the same recruits - particularly on offense.

    That took long enough on my mobile. I can look it up tomorrow and bump it with what I come up with.

    xxmgobluexx

  • aroz13 said...

    Coincidentally, there will be 20 disappointed kids who had offers from both schools, and only 2 happy ones.

    Those poor kids. lol +1

    xxmgobluexx

  • I just don't get how people can get so worked up about recruiting. These sites are kind of a joke. It's one big self fulfilling prophecy.

    Kid A goes to Alabama, so he must be good. Give him 4 stars.

    Kid B goes to Illinois, so he must be "aight". Give him 3 stars.

    Kid A ends up sucking and "transfers" (lol). Kid B ends up being pretty sweet and is a 2nd round pick 4 yrs later.

    How does this happen? Because these sites can't possibly evaluate all these kids. The payroll would be far too expensive. They would surely be in the red come year end. So they rely on reputation and rank kids accordingly.

    The funny thing is, is that most people seem to agree with this and yet, they still get their panties in a bunch over recruiting. Every. Single. Year. People on here talk about the next great recruit and how he's going to change everything. Basketball, football, doesn't matter. And each year it's the same story. Minor impact and shows promise in the future.

    I'll take our coaching over all that BS. Most of these kids play after being in the system for 2 or 3 years. By that time they are completely different than what they were when they were being recruited.

    I will say this though. There seems to be about 10 recruits every year that are can't miss type players. They end up being pretty outstanding and move on to the NFL. They aren't necessarily the top 10 ranked recruits but they seem to be up in the top 25, 30, etc. I guess if you find those kids, it gives you a huge edge. Will Gholston comes to mind.

    Harry Callahan

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Who will play right away this year? 4/5 star Kyle Kalis on the oline? 4/5 Andre Pipkins on the dline? That should be it, outside of injuries.

    If you read some of the interviews of the commits, nobody was offered immediate playing time. All playing time is earned.

    That's rcmb spin.

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

  • Tanfan said...

    That's rcmb spin.

    Way to back up the Michigan Man. Like U of M recruits are going to say they were promised immediate playing time.

    This post was edited by duffy munn on 4/1/2012 at 9:50 AM

    duffy munn

  • Harry Callahan said...

    I just don't get how people can get so worked up about recruiting. These sites are kind of a joke. It's one big self fulfilling prophecy.

    Kid A goes to Alabama, so he must be good. Give him 4 stars.

    Kid B goes to Illinois, so he must be "aight". Give him 3 stars.

    Kid A ends up sucking and "transfers" (lol). Kid B ends up being pretty sweet and is a 2nd round pick 4 yrs later.

    How does this happen? Because these sites can't possibly evaluate all these kids. The payroll would be far too expensive. They would surely be in the red come year end. So they rely on reputation and rank kids accordingly.

    The funny thing is, is that most people seem to agree with this and yet, they still get their panties in a bunch over recruiting. Every. Single. Year. People on here talk about the next great recruit and how he's going to change everything. Basketball, football, doesn't matter. And each year it's the same story. Minor impact and shows promise in the future.

    I'll take our coaching over all that BS. Most of these kids play after being in the system for 2 or 3 years. By that time they are completely different than what they were when they were being recruited.

    I will say this though. There seems to be about 10 recruits every year that are can't miss type players. They end up being pretty outstanding and move on to the NFL. They aren't necessarily the top 10 ranked recruits but they seem to be up in the top 25, 30, etc. I guess if you find those kids, it gives you a huge edge. Will Gholston comes to mind.

    Funny how those stars didn't mean crap about Will Gholston, Caper and Baker. Nah, didn't mean anything. Funny how a program filled with 4 and 5 stars like Bama goes to the NC title game every other year. We all saw what a D line and linebacking core made up of NFl talent did to our O line two years ago. So, yes the recruiting rankings and services provide a statistical model which provides a basis to predict success. Just like the LSAT or MCAT provide a basis to determine if someone is smart enough to complete a law school or medical school curriculum. There are exceptions and some people in the two star range can end up playing in the NFL, but it's not common. It's an exception to the rule.

    The thing is, MD is a great coach. MgoBLOw is constantly dissing him and predicting he will leave MSU for SC or Ohio State if given the opportunity because by implication MSU sucks and nobody in their right mind who can coach should stay there. That is the arrogance and assholyness that makes us all hate the alumni New York (I couldn't get in to Harvard) types that go there. MD is able to take the three star and coach them up, but he can only do so much and there is a ceiling on how good the team can get if it is primarily made up of less talented kids than the opposition. We all know Kentucky is made up of NBA talent, and you can see that the other teams who don't have the NBA talent just can't keep up. So, if the MSU alumni base is satisfied with lower tiered bowls and the occasional once every 20 years or more Rose Bowl birth, then so be it. I haven't given up on the program like the enablers have. I want more. I want an NC or at least a Rose Bowl. I kinda think last year was our best chance and that it's either going to be this year or never, given the recruiting landscape.

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

  • duffy munn said...

    Way to back up the Michigan Man. Like U of M recruits are going to say they were promised immediate playing time.

    I can be objective and tell it like it is. I'm not a fanboy.

    Keeping the sunshiners in check since 2000.

    Tanfan

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Since the day Hoke was hired, there have been 23 kids who have committed to either Michigan or MSU with offers from the respected schools.

    In the 2011 class, Frank Clark committed to Michigan after Hoke was hird.

    2012 recruits that went to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Jarrod Wilson, Andre Pipkins, Chris Wormley, James Ross, Terry Richardson, Dennis Norfleet, Amara Darboh, Royce Jenkins-Stone (he flat out said that if RichRod was the coach he wouldn't have committed to Michigan), Tom Strobel, Matt Godin, Devin Funchess, Ben Braden, Mario Ojemudia, AJ Williams.

    2013 recruits that have verbaled to Michigan with offers from both Michigan and MSU, Shane Morris, Dymonte Thomas, Kyle Bosch, Patrick Kulger, Wyatt Shallman,.

    2012 commits that went to MSU with Michigan offer, Aaron Burbridge and Monty Madaris.

    No verbals to MSU with Michigan offers so far for the 2013 cycle.

    Since Hoke's hire, 20 kids to Michigan, 2 kids to MSU with offers from both school.

    This can be summed up by saying that despite MSU's dramatic turnaround under the new regime - LAKS/Hollis/Coach D - and recent success in the B1G, especially against UM, Michigan is still able to win the head to head recruiting battles.

    Michigan is always going to recruit well. If anyone thought they would be down forever and now are going to torture themselves with these stats (looking at you tanfan), do yourself a favor and stop following recruiting.

    However, the 20-2 advantage only really matters if the other 18 guys we picked up to fill those spots are far inferior to the guys UM signed. Taking this one step further, not only do they have to be inferior from a talent perspective but Coach D and his staff also have to fail in coaching them up. That is not a bet I would be wiling to take.

    We have not had the kind of player development (RS a whole class is insane) program we currently enjoy. It is fun to follow the ins and outs of the recruiting battles but let's not miss the big picture.

    francero77

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