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Top 5 RBs in Big Ten

  • On_Wisconsin said...

    The O-Line is always going to be pretty good, but if you look at what Ball did in 2010 once he got the job (final 5 games) with Tolzien at QB it's pretty impressive (114 carries, 777 yards, 6.8 ypc, 14 tds).

    Add in the fact that he averaged nearly 13 yards per catch last year (24 rec, 306 yards, 6 tds) and he's a well rounded back that can catch the ball and is good in protection.

    There have been plenty of backs at UW who I didn't think would translate to the pro game (PJ Hill, Anthony Davis are examples, John Clay because I don't think he loves the game that much), but I think that Ball is going to be fantastic in the NFL. He's strong, agile and has enough speed to be a very good runner. Add in his catching ability and protection skills and he will be good for someone in the NFL.

    I think Ball is a great back. You could definitely see how much better he is than White. The offense didnt look nearly as impressive when he was on the sideline.

    The one thing I will say about his pass catching, while good, I don't think it is anything special. You bring up the yards per catch, but almost half of his yards came on 3 catches(longs of 63, 46 and 30). He had 3 catches for 139 yards(46.33 yards per catch) and 21 catches for 170 yards(8.1 yards per catch). It's a classic case of stats not being the end all.

    I think Ball and Bell are probably 1 and 1a to start the season. Bell is really underappreciated and still kind of unknown due to him splitting time his freshman/sophomore year. It's crazy when you look at how each one is used. Ball had 12 games last year with 15 or more carries, 8 with 20 or more. He had 3 games with 3 or more catches.

    Bell had 6 games with 15 or more carries, 1 with 20 or more. He had 7 games with 3 or more catches.

    I have a feeling that Ball will get the accolades but Bell very well may end up being a better back.

    www.housekeepingassociates.com

    morgarc ●

  • The_Dude said...

    I obviously have zero problems with Ball being number one if you want to make that case. However, he reminds me of a Florida QB. System RB. Melvin Gordon on Wisconsin has more talent than Ball.

    Tell me, who was the last Wisky running back to do a damn thing in the pro's? cricket

    When you take the variables out of the equation, Bell is a straight up better RB than Ball imo.

    Care to tell me what the "system" the WI RBs are in, because WI's "system" is pretty darn close to MSU's: a pro-style O with a FB behind an OL. If you want to say that Wisconsin's RBs get great stats because they run behind a fantastic OL, then that's fine. That's not a "system", like Leach's Air Raid; it's just a pro-style offense.

    This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 5/16/2012 at 1:40 PM

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky ●

  • chairman meow said...

    ...Isn't the backup RB James White? White is a legitimately good RB who would probably start anywhere else in the conference except here.

    Actually, White was out as well. Gordon is the #3, and he was the guy who had the great spring.

    Despite their differences in size, Ball and Bell are similar in the way they play. Both are physical runners,can run through tackles, and are good receivers.

    I think Ball might get a slight nod, as I feel he has more big play ability. I don't recall seeing Bell make too many long runs. Bell may be a better pro prospect, as he is just bigger, and will have fewer carries on his body.

    It's true we haven't had many RBs succeed at the NFL level. You would think that would actually be a plus in recruiting. You tell the kids you're recruiting "Look what we do with slightly above average RBs. They gain 1500 yds in our offense. Add in a kid who is a Top 5 RB coming out of high school? He's going to be a Heisman candidate."

    badgerman27 ●

  • Big 10 Games:
    RUSHING Cl G Att. Yards Avg. TD Long Avg/G
    1. Ball, Montee-WIS JR 8 185 1262 6.8 20 54 157.8
    2. Coker, Marcus-IOWASO 8 194 1004 5.2 11 50 125.5
    3. Redd, Silas-PSU SO 8 168 885 5.3 3 42 110.6
    4. Burkhead, Rex-NEB JR 8 197 848 4.3 8 22 106.0
    5. Toussaint, F.-MICH SO 8 139 818 5.9 6 65 102.2
    6. Herron, dan-OSU SR 6 122 593 4.9 3 57 98.8
    7. Houston, S.-IND SO 8 129 711 5.5 7 67 88.9
    8. Gray, MarQueis-MINNJR 7 128 615 4.8 6 35 87.9
    9. Robinson, D.-MICH JR 8 137 611 4.5 11 41 76.4
    10. Bell, Le'Veon-MSU SO 8 109 577 5.3 4 35 72.1

    Just so I am clear, you guys have a problem with Toussaint being #5?

    Michigan Hockey

  • chairman meow said...

    ...Isn't the backup RB James White? White is a legitimately good RB who would probably start anywhere else in the conference except here.

    James White wouldn't start for half the big ten.

    The_Dude

  • Michigan Hockey said...

    Big 10 Games: RUSHING Cl G Att. Yards Avg. TD Long Avg/G 1. Ball, Montee-WIS JR 8 185 1262 6.8 20 54 157.8 2. Coker, Marcus-IOWASO 8 194 1004 5.2 11 50 125.5 3. Redd, Silas-PSU SO 8 168 885 5.3 3 42 110.6 4. Burkhead, Rex-NEB JR 8 197 848 4.3 8 22 106.0 5. Toussaint, F.-MICH SO 8 139 818 5.9 6 65 102.2 6. Herron, dan-OSU SR 6 122 593 4.9 3 57 98.8 7. Houston, S.-IND SO 8 129 711 5.5 7 67 88.9 8. Gray, MarQueis-MINNJR 7 128 615 4.8 6 35 87.9 9. Robinson, D.-MICH JR 8 137 611 4.5 11 41 76.4 10. Bell, Le'Veon-MSU SO 8 109 577 5.3 4 35 72.1

    Just so I am clear, you guys have a problem with Toussaint being #5?

    I don't.

    But the premise of this thread was best RB, not who had the best stats.

    To me, if I am starting a team from scratch and could take any Big Ten RB I would take Bell first.

    The_Dude

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Care to tell me what the "system" the WI RBs are in, because WI's "system" is pretty darn close to MSU's: a pro-style O with a FB behind an OL. If you want to say that Wisconsin's RBs get great stats because they run behind a fantastic OL, then that's fine. That's not a "system", like Leach's Air Raid; it's just a pro-style offense.

    Ok, system was a bad word.

    You get what I mean. They get a ton of carries behind a monster OL. They usually aren't elite physically gifted backs hence the washouts in the pros.

    The_Dude

  • Don't sleep on Greg Garmon.

    Howler ●

  • Howler said...

    Don't sleep on Greg Garmon.

    I don't think that anyone can put a RS freshman into their Top B1G RB list.

    F Michigan

    AASpartan

  • AASpartan said...

    I don't think that anyone can put a RS freshman into their Top B1G RB list.

    Especially when he has a higher risk than normal to spontaneously combust.

    Sp4rt4ns

  • SpartanRocky said...

    I don't see how you can have Ball as anything other than #1. Are you talking about who's going to have the most production this year? I think your top 4 are correct in that regard, but not in that order.

    There's a pretty big drop-off after those 5 though. You'd assume someone will emerge for tOSU, but Iowa is screwed. Purdue, IU and Northwestern's ground-games are poor in terms of their RB play; same with Minnesota.

    What happened to Coker?

    a) Went pro?
    b) Dropped out?
    c) Kidney disorder?
    d) Baby mama?
    e) Drug fiend?
    f) All of the above?

    Vim -- noun: robust energy and enthusiasm : VITALITY

    Bruce Banner Ad

  • The_Dude said...

    I don't.

    But the premise of this thread was best RB, not who had the best stats.

    To me, if I am starting a team from scratch and could take any Big Ten RB I would take Bell first.

    I understand it's not all stats otherwise Ball wins easily and Bell is much further down the list. But to say that Toussaint, who averaged 5.9 per carry and over 100 per game is questionable at #5 seems crazy to me.

    Michigan Hockey

  • Sp4rt4ns said...

    Especially when he has a higher risk than normal to spontaneously combust.

    Sadly, you are 100% correct.

    Howler ●

  • SpartanRocky said...

    I don't see how you can have Ball as anything other than #1. Are you talking about who's going to have the most production this year? I think your top 4 are correct in that regard, but not in that order.

    There's a pretty big drop-off after those 5 though. You'd assume someone will emerge for tOSU, but Iowa is screwed. Purdue, IU and Northwestern's ground-games are poor in terms of their RB play; same with Minnesota.

    I don't think Bell > Ball is much of a stretch. Ball put up some impressive numbers, but he did so behind an NFL-caliber line with nearly twice the carries. Watching them run, Bell has more power and flat-out better moves. Ball has slightly better speed and a nice spin move, but Bell has the spin, the hurdle, and that brutal stiff-arm. I've also never seen Bell get truly rocked, and Ball had to leave the game after getting hit more than once last year.

    signature image

    tRCMB's resident Wayne State Warrior and Sam's Club Spartan fan.

    fishrose

  • GreenAllDay said...

    If you have bell over Ball you are a huge homer

    wave
    1. Bell
    2. Ball
    3. Burkhead
    4. Coker
    5. Hill

    Sgost8

  • Bruce Banner Ad said...

    What happened to Coker?

    a) Went pro?
    b) Dropped out?
    c) Kidney disorder?
    d) Baby mama?
    e) Drug fiend?
    f) All of the above?

    Wishing he were still a Hawk. Plays for SUNY stony brook. Kicked off team for reasons unknown

    Howler ●

  • fishrose said...

    I don't think Bell > Ball is much of a stretch. Ball put up some impressive numbers, but he did so behind an NFL-caliber line with nearly twice the carries. Watching them run, Bell has more power and flat-out better moves. Ball has slightly better speed and a nice spin move, but Bell has the spin, the hurdle, and that brutal stiff-arm. I've also never seen Bell get truly rocked, and Ball had to leave the game after getting hit more than once last year.

    That's all well and good, but what really matters is college production. Bell may be the better RB in a vacuum, but who cares if the OL can only allow him to run for 1,100 yards this year and 4.8 YPC, while Ball is rushing for 1,800 yards, 6.1 YPC and 27 TDs?

    I see what you mean, but production has to count for something here; Ball put up over twice the #s that Bell did with less than twice the carries.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky ●

  • Sgost8 said...

    wave1. Bell 2. Ball 3. Burkhead 4. Coker 5. Hill

    Coker ain't coming back.

    Hill hasn't shown anything.

    I'd say something like:

    1 - Montee Ball
    2 - Le'Veon Bell
    3 - Rex Burkhead
    4 - Silas Redd
    5 - Fitz Touissant

    Macks ●

  • fishrose said...

    I don't think Bell > Ball is much of a stretch. Ball put up some impressive numbers, but he did so behind an NFL-caliber line with nearly twice the carries. Watching them run, Bell has more power and flat-out better moves. Ball has slightly better speed and a nice spin move, but Bell has the spin, the hurdle, and that brutal stiff-arm. I've also never seen Bell get truly rocked, and Ball had to leave the game after getting hit more than once last year.

    A little bit of homerism in this thread, which is to be expected. But to say that Bell has "flat out better moves" is a bit of a stretch. I'm not sure how much UW football you watched last year, but Ball was making people look ridiculous.

    Chitown_Badger

  • If I'm picking a RB this year for college, I'd take Ball.

    Going forward from here and looking at the pros, I'd take Bell.

    Spartan Punk

  • Chitown_Badger said...

    A little bit of homerism in this thread, which is to be expected. But to say that Bell has "flat out better moves" is a bit of a stretch. I'm not sure how much UW football you watched last year, but Ball was making people look ridiculous.

    I wouldn't say it's "flat out"....Ball is an excellent runner and has made some great plays. Bell has surprising agility and is quick on his feet for a person his size. Ball is slightly faster, Bell runs with a bit more power. Both are really good RBs. Ball has much bigger holes to run through, Bell had to kind of make his own path.

    This next year should provide a good measuring ground. Both teams will start inexperienced QBs and fairly experienced lines.

    Macks ●

  • Macks said...

    I wouldn't say it's "flat out"....Ball is an excellent runner and has made some great plays. Bell has surprising agility and is quick on his feet for a person his size. Ball is slightly faster, Bell runs with a bit more power. Both are really good RBs. Ball has much bigger holes to run through, Bell had to kind of make his own path.

    This next year should provide a good measuring ground. Both teams will start inexperienced QBs and fairly experienced lines.

    We're obviously both lucky to have these guys on our squads, as both are excellent. I agree that Bell makes his own path a little better, which isn't too surprising, as he's a big guy for a tailback. Ball actually lost a ton of weight and added on some muscle before last season, and it showed in both his speed and strength. Enough so, obviously, to get him to NYC.

    Also as you said, both backs are going to be critical to the hopes of their teams this year given the unproven QBs. I'm not intimately familiar with MSUs backups, but UW (as seems to usually be the case) has a bunch of depth there with White and Gordon...so hopefully they can step up and spell Ball from time to time.

    Montee Ball drops pounds, adds speed - NCAA Football - Sporting News

    http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-08-21/montee-ball-drops-pounds-adds-speed

    aol.sportingnews.com

    Chitown_Badger

  • Chitown_Badger said...

    A little bit of homerism in this thread, which is to be expected. But to say that Bell has "flat out better moves" is a bit of a stretch. I'm not sure how much UW football you watched last year, but Ball was making people look ridiculous.

    I watched both games against MSU, the OSU game, and the Rose Bowl. He can juke and he has a solid spin move, but Ball's stiff-arm is weak compared to Bell's and I never saw him hurdle a defender. I also saw him get absolutely trucked and forced to leave the game more than once. Bell runs with much better leverage and takes better angles; he doesn't take those kind of hits.

    signature image

    tRCMB's resident Wayne State Warrior and Sam's Club Spartan fan.

    fishrose

  • fishrose said...

    I watched both games against MSU, the OSU game, and the Rose Bowl. He can juke and he has a solid spin move, but Ball's stiff-arm is weak compared to Bell's and I never saw him hurdle a defender. I also saw him get absolutely trucked and forced to leave the game more than once. Bell runs with much better leverage and takes better angles; he doesn't take those kind of hits.

    Ball is also 3 inches shorter and 30lbs lighter. Bell is a physical freak, he's agile and nimble and is bigger than every DB and most linebackers that get in his way. Bell's stiff arm is mostly just an excuse for defenders to drop and save face before the failed tackle.

    Ball ran with a ton of power in 2010, but he was faster this year because he dropped weight. H

    Macks ●

  • Chitown_Badger said...

    We're obviously both lucky to have these guys on our squads, as both are excellent. I agree that Bell makes his own path a little better, which isn't too surprising, as he's a big guy for a tailback. Ball actually lost a ton of weight and added on some muscle before last season, and it showed in both his speed and strength. Enough so, obviously, to get him to NYC.

    Also as you said, both backs are going to be critical to the hopes of their teams this year given the unproven QBs. I'm not intimately familiar with MSUs backups, but UW (as seems to usually be the case) has a bunch of depth there with White and Gordon...so hopefully they can step up and spell Ball from time to time.

    It was a damn travesty that he wasn't given real consideration for the award till the last few weeks of the season. 30+ rushing TDs is just insane.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky ●

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