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TheDudeAbides21 said...
I would agree Michigan slipped during the later stages of Lloyd's tenure as the program got more and more complacent, but they were still winning more often then not at a pretty "elite" level. I would say in alot of ways current MSU is built alot like Lloyd's teams, but have not had the same type of success yet. Dantonio reminds me alot of Lloyd Carr in alot of ways... I think that is the perfect coaching comparison.
Lloyds last 5 seasons at Michigan 2003 Won the Big Ten went to the Rose Bowl 2004 Won the Big Ten went to the Rose Bowl 2005 Alamo Bowl down year 2006 1 game away from national title. Rose Bowl apperance. 2007 Should have made the Rose Bowl, but got passed over by Illinois(Even though we beat them at their place) very similar to what happened to MSU this season. Capital one Bowl apperance.
Dantonio Last 5 seasons 2007 Champs sports bowl 2008 Capital one Bowl 2009 Alamo Bowl 2010 Won the Big Ten. Capital one Bowl 2011 Outback Bowl.
"Losing Benenoch is a mortal blow from which this program can't recover"-T-Pain
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Rogue Leader said...
Not really. Lloyd took over a ready made program and continued their regional success and national irrelevance. Dantonio took over a hot mess and has had success unseen in decades at MSU. Besides running pro-style offenses I don't think the comparison is all that accurate. Dantonio and his staff has shown a creativity and willingness to gamble that would've had lloyd soaking his depends.
This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 4/19/2012 at 11:35 AM
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Heat Miser said...
Why is it so important for you to "convince" us that your view of SCum status in the CFB pantheon is the correct one? You seem a little obsessed. You'll have much greater success on mgoblowjob.
This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 4/19/2012 at 11:35 AM
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TheDudeAbides21 said...
Not surprising someone could find a way to rip on a Hall of Fame football coach. I was trying to give Dantonio a compliment... being compared to Lloyd is not a bad thing. Lloyd used to be very creative and aggressive during the early part of his tenure... he got complacent as the years went on, it happens to alot of coaches.
I'll post the list of Accomplishments one more time. 122-40 Overall Record 81-23 Big Ten Record 5 Big Ten titles 1 National Title 6 Highest winning percentage of any program in the Country during his 13 year tenure 19-8 vs Top 10 Opponents 6-7 vs OSU 10-3 vs MSU 9-2 vs PSU 5-4 vs ND Combined 30-16 record vs those 4 opponents No Losing Seasons
"Losing Benenoch is a mortal blow from which this program can't recover"-T-Pain
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TheDudeAbides21 said...
Not surprising someone could find a way to rip on a Hall of Fame football coach. I was trying to give Dantonio a compliment... being compared to Lloyd is not a bad thing. Lloyd used to be very creative and aggressive during the early part of his tenure... he got complacent as the years went on, it happens to alot of coaches.
I'll post the list of Accomplishments one more time. 122-40 Overall Record 81-23 Big Ten Record 5 Big Ten titles 1 National Title 6 Highest winning percentage of any program in the Country during his 13 year tenure 19-8 vs Top 10 Opponents 6-7 vs OSU 10-3 vs MSU 9-2 vs PSU 5-4 vs ND Combined 30-16 record vs those 4 opponents No Losing Seasons
I would think MSU fans would be pretty content if Dantonio strings together a run like that coming up in the future.
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Rogue Leader said...
If I was ripping Lloyd then you must think very little of UM's history. I said he did exactly what has been done at UM since they started racking up wins against Ann Arbor Pioneer and the Detroit Athletic Club. Win the BIG occasionally, do next to nothing nationally. 97 was a great year, but I think Woodson should repay his street agents.
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Walter_Sanchez said...
Uhhh yeah, outside fans viewed Carr as a good coach who always had UM competing for Rose Bowls and that UMers got too greedy running him off.
A big difference is Carr just stepped into a nationally elite program that was already built by a guy name Bo, whereas Dantonio is stepping into a program coming off of 3 straight losing seasons, and 5 out of last 6.
Carr had to keep the machine rolling, Dantonio had to build it up from the base.
I think if Dantonio coached at UM he would have more success than Carr did because he's a better coach.
This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 4/19/2012 at 11:52 AM
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TheDudeAbides21 said...
He was 19-8 vs top 10 opponents how is that doing nothing nationally? If you want to say he didn't string together Juggernaut teams like USC had in the 2000's, Miami under Butch Davis, or Alabama has currently and win multiple titles that is fair game, but to say he did next to nothing nationally is not true. I think many people have a problem seperating between elite programs and Juggernaut programs... there is a difference. Lloyd was running an "elite" program, but we were far from a juggernaut.
F Michigan
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TheDudeAbides21 said...
He was 19-8 vs top 10 opponents how is that doing nothing nationally? If you want to say he didn't string together Juggernaut teams like USC had in the 2000's, Miami under Butch Davis, or Alabama has currently and win multiple titles that is fair game, but to say he did next to nothing nationally is not true. I think many people have a problem seperating between elite programs and Juggernaut programs... there is a difference. Lloyd was running an "elite" program, but we were far from a juggernaut.
Guinness makes you drop mud.
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TheDudeAbides21 said...
(1995-2007 Lloyd Carr Era) 122-40 Overall Record 81-23 Big Ten Record 5 Big Ten Titles 1 National Titles 6 highest winning percentage of Any program in the country during that 13 year period 19-8 vs Top 10 Opponents 6-7 vs OSU 10-3 vs MSU 9-2 vs PSU 5-4 vs ND No Losing Seasons No Ncaa Violations
Michigan won 7 out of the 10 big ten titles in 70's. If your going to rip on the program at least do it right, outside of those 3 years under Rich Rod Michigan has been pretty consistent every decade for the last 40 plus years.
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Heat Miser said...
Sorry, not "elite" or "juggernaut". A notch below elite. Kinda like Auburn. Caught a break & got an NC, but not really consistently relevant in the NC picture.
There are certainly worse things than that (as Spartan fans are well aware), but SCummers need to insist they belong in the inner circle. You're not going to win this debate here. It's been tried dozens of times by better trollers than you using the same tired arguments & stats.
I'll say it again. You can't win here. Once more for clarity: You can't win here.
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lpg2624 said...
No, jackass they count you're missing the point though. He was referring to competing "nationally" which usually means outside the Big 10, so I believe he was saying that Lloyd failed to get big wins outside the Big Ten against the elite competition.
This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 4/19/2012 at 11:59 AM
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TheDudeAbides21 said...
I would agree Michigan slipped during the later stages of Lloyd's tenure as the program got more and more complacent, but they were still winning more often then not at a pretty "elite" level. I would say in alot of ways current MSU is built alot like Lloyd's teams, but have not had the same type of success yet. Dantonio reminds me alot of Lloyd Carr in alot of ways... I think that is the perfect coaching comparison.
Lloyds last 5 seasons at Michigan 2003 Won the Big Ten went to the Rose Bowl 2004 Won the Big Ten went to the Rose Bowl 2005 Alamo Bowl down year 2006 1 game away from national title. Rose Bowl apperance. 2007 Should have made the Rose Bowl, but got passed over by Illinois(Even though we beat them at their place) very similar to what happened to MSU this season. Capital one Bowl apperance.
Dantonio Last 5 seasons 2007 Champs sports bowl 2008 Capital one Bowl 2009 Alamo Bowl 2010 Won the Big Ten. Capital one Bowl 2011 Outback Bowl.
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Royal said...
First sentence. Wrong. UM was NOT winning more often than not at an elite level.
2003: 14 point loss to USC 2004: 16 point loss to OSU, Props for going down to the wire in the Rose Bowl 2005: As you said, down year, lost to OSU, Nebraska, ND, Wisky and Minnesota 2006: Team and fans complain for a month about how you are clearly the 2nd best team in the country. Another 14 point loss to USC 2007: YOU LOST TO APPALACHIAN STATE. Then got blown out by Oregon. Didn't score a TD against OSU. But yea, you were at an elite level.
I think many here would consider calling Dantonio similar to Carr an insult. In fact, their results are completely different. Carr had a roster full of some of the best talent in the country. Yet, could NOT beat any of the elite teams in the country that had equal or less success on the recruiting trail. Dantonio came in and was working with a depleted roster, still doesn't recruit the same kind of talent as UM does, but is competing for B1G titles year in and year out. Dantonio's had it a lot rougher than Carr did.
This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 4/19/2012 at 12:07 PM
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TheDudeAbides21 said...
You can't win on the internet period... You do realize that right? I really don't need your approval, im just here for the good football discussion... your entitiled to your own opinion, we just happen to disagree.
Everyone here disagrees with you. And "debating" the merits of SCum football on an MSU board is not a "good football discussion" since nobody's opinion is going to change. But that was the intent of your trolling & thread hijack, so I tip my hat to you there.
The OP, however, was about
getting in your heads...again...and you getting all butthurt. Your history under various dead guys & Floyd are irrelevant.Guinness makes you drop mud.
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