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Harry Hood ●
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One Eyed Jack said...
B49, just stop. Your initial post rationalized that poor ole' Meyer FORCED into flipping recruits because he had no other choice but to do so.
Admit it and move on. Meyer is a poacher. Denying it is just stupid. But you are right, it isn't illegal. It's just sleazy when there hasn't been a coaching change. Thanks to Meyer, he has set the sleaze precedent in the B1G and, I agree, MSU is going to have to roll up their sleeves and dig in deep in order to compete with the likes of OSU.
Unfortunately.
Go Bucks!!!
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wh5208speed said...
Urban is not looking to give B1G coaches pointers on recruiting at an individual level. The main point of having a group discussion among coaches is how the B1G conference can raise the profile of all of the teams. Competition breeds excellence. From his experience of coaching and recruiting in the SEC, he knows what a recruiting advantage it is to have so many night games. It will take the collection of coaches to change this tradition, not just one or two schools. There are logical reasons why the B1G only have day games in the month of November and it was because of cold weather. The flip side is the south (SEC) has a lot of night games, because of the heat at noon which is less safe for players and fans. One big challenge of having so many noon games, is that recruits and fans do not have enough time before the game to experience the buildup of the gameday atmosphere, which creates a lot of anticipation and excitement. I personally think there is something really special about the night games in the B1G. I have been to a lot of B1G games over the past decade and noon games are okay, 3:30 games are usually pretty good, and night games are rocking. I have always wanted to go to Madison for a night game just for the atmosphere.
I can understand any fan/coach being frustrated when they lose a recruit that they thought they had locked up. However, most of these young men love the attention, and if they were serious about their commitment, they would quite taking calls from other schools once they made their pledge. I'm sure it is hard for them to turn away all of the flattering, ego-stroking recruiters and free trips to see parts of the country that they may never had the opportunity to visit.....and at the end of the day, until they sign..... these young men don't owe any university allegiance and they should use up all the opportunities, as they will be making one of the most important decisions of their lives. I personally would like all of the B1G schools do well, except for U of M, and that is only because they are evil
Jools Holland
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dkerns said...
There's your problem Rocky. Comparing B1G programs to Utah, is the whole problem. We should be SEC not MAC, not WAC. The SEC's last place team would've been placed 7 in the B1G. There are problems.
This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 2/7/2013 at 7:38 PM
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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Dr RedHotLlama said...
Um, no, I'm calling you a favored program by Delaney. I don't think that's exactly controversial. And was that not a pick 6? Was Braxton really injured after the play? Do you enjoy wins given to you by the refs?
I'm sure you believe that Delaney "told" the refs not to let MSU win at all costs.
The Holy Trinity... as I see it.
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SpartanRocky said...
You aren't understanding what I'm saying. I'm illustrating that even a supposed great recruiter can't recruit beyond some limitations.
Like it or not, every single Big 10 school besides tOSU has a distinct disadvantage in terms of location. Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, IU and Purdue all are from talent-poor states. Illinois and Northwestern, MSU and UM compete with each other in states that have enough talent to produce one very good program, but doesn't have the talent to support 2.
PSU comes the closest to tOSU in terms of in-state recruiting advantages, but even they have to contend with Pitt.
Just demanding teams "recruit better because the SEC does it" is sloppy analysis at best. You have to look at WHY the SEC recruits better than the Big 10 and what the Big 10 can do differently.
As I pointed out in another thread, the 13th best player in Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia and FL this year was a 4-star recruit. The 13th best player in every single Big 10 state not called Ohio was a mid 3-star to a 2-star.
There is just more talent in the South, and like it or not, most of the local talent stays local. Is tOSU willing to share the OH wealth with the best of the conference? Going to tell Kyle Trout not to accept his tOSU offer because MSU could really use a tackle of his caliber? Going to tell Drake Harris you're no longer recruiting him because he could potentially help lift MSU to greater heights?
Didn't think so. So spare me the faux outrage over how the Big 10 as a conference recruits, unless you're truly willing to see tOSU drop to recruiting in the top 20 instead of top 5 in exchange for a couple more Big 10 programs pushing into the top 25.
tOSU and UM take the best talent out of the Big 10 region and the rest of the conference is largely fighting over the scraps.; they're the two most successful programs in the conference so this isn't shocking. Same thing happens in the SEC, but the "scraps" are 4-star guys. In the Big 10, they're 3-stars. I don't see how your remedy this by staying in-region.
There's 2 ways for current Big 10 programs not named UM/tOSU to improve their recruiting:
1) Actively try (and succeed) to poach UM and tOSU's highly rated in-region guys; or
2) Get out of region 4 and 5-stars.
Since I don't think tOSU is willing to share the wealth, I assume you mean #2 is the route you'd like the Big 10 to go.
So let me ask you: how many top OH recruits escape the Big 10 footprint? 1-2 per year? How many of those go to non-national powers? 1 a decade?
The same ratio leave CA/TX and SEC country. The same % are willing to spurn UF, Bama, FSU, Miami(Fl), LSU, UGA, TX, UCLA, TAMU and UCLA to go play for a mid-level regional power like Arkansas, South Carolina, Clemson, etc. An even smaller % are willing to spurn all those top schools and mid-level schools to go play for a mid-level Big 10 school.
Who can attract the top talent from anywhere? The most successful teams in country, a class of which UM and tOSU are the only 2 Big 10 members.
Sooooo, back to my point. If the Big 10 as a conference is going to recruit better, it needs to be able to attract more out of state talent . . . . which only happens when its teams win at a high level . . . which only happens when they attract enough out of state talent, so on and so on.
Bottom line: the non-tOSU/UM teams don't need to change up recruiting tactics, they need to win at a high level with the players they've got.
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Tiger v Gorilla said...
1. Recruits are better in the south (weather). They are closer to SEC country, hence they liked SEC schools growing up
2. SEC would let in a 5 year old who couldn't read if it meant a 5 star QB
3. Weather -- kids from the north will go south for weather, kids from the south rarely go north because they don't like the weather
4. budgets -- No one in the big ten has a budget like Tennessee gives their football team to recruit (oh yeah, how did that work out for Tenn.
)
5. I would kick Urban in the balls if I ever saw him around bryanhartley516
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Duplic8tor said...
you're right. I'm glad you pointed that out, because you are so right... mr. right right righty-right-right. When we OSU fans aren't over here chatting with you Sparties, do the rest of the MSU fans beat the shit out of you because every single post you've written has "whiny" written all over it.
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SpartanRocky said...
You aren't understanding what I'm saying. I'm illustrating that even a supposed great recruiter can't recruit beyond some limitations.
Like it or not, every single Big 10 school besides tOSU has a distinct disadvantage in terms of location. Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, IU and Purdue all are from talent-poor states. Illinois and Northwestern, MSU and UM compete with each other in states that have enough talent to produce one very good program, but doesn't have the talent to support 2.
PSU comes the closest to tOSU in terms of in-state recruiting advantages, but even they have to contend with Pitt.
Just demanding teams "recruit better because the SEC does it" is sloppy analysis at best. You have to look at WHY the SEC recruits better than the Big 10 and what the Big 10 can do differently.
As I pointed out in another thread, the 13th best player in Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia and FL this year was a 4-star recruit. The 13th best player in every single Big 10 state not called Ohio was a mid 3-star to a 2-star.
There is just more talent in the South, and like it or not, most of the local talent stays local. Is tOSU willing to share the OH wealth with the best of the conference? Going to tell Kyle Trout not to accept his tOSU offer because MSU could really use a tackle of his caliber?
tOSU and UM take the best talent out of the Big 10 region and the rest of the conference is largely fighting over the scraps. Same thing happens in the SEC, but the "scraps" are 4-star guys. In the Big 10, they're 3-stars. I don't see how your remedy this.
There's 2 ways for current Big 10 programs not named UM/tOSU to improve their recruiting:
1) Actively try (and succeed) to poach UM and tOSU's highly rated in-region guys; or
2) Get out of region 4 and 5-stars.
Since I don't think tOSU is willing to share the wealth, I assume you mean #2 is the route you'd like the Big 10 to go.
So let me ask you: how many top OH recruits escape the Big 10 footprint? 1-2 per year? How many of those go to non-national powers? 1 a decade?
The same ratio leave CA/TX and SEC country. The same % are willing to spurn UF, Bama, FSU, Miami(Fl), LSU, UGA, TX, UCLA, TAMU and UCLA to go play for a mid-level regional power like Arkansas, South Carolina, Clemson, etc. An even smaller % are willing to spurn all those top schools and mid-level schools to go play for a mid-level Big 10 school.
Who can attract the top talent from anywhere? The most successful teams in country, a class of which UM and tOSU are the only 2 Big 10 members.
Sooooo, back to my point. If the Big 10 as a conference is going to recruit better, it needs to be able to attract more out of state talent . . . . which only happens when its teams win at a high level . . . which only happens when they attract enough out of state talent, so on and so on.
Bottom line: the non-tOSU/UM teams don't need to change up recruiting tactics, they need to win at a high level with the players they've got.
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Urban Meyer on B1G recruiting