MSU Red Cedar Message Board

Is that middle pic in HP - Shimla perhaps?

Some Westerners get it...

Agreed. I have spent quite a bit of time in India, have travelled overland from Kerala to Kashmir and I think it is a remarkably diverse and stimulating place to visit - I will take my kids there when they get a bit older. Though, I must say I have seen a couple public cremations and the odd corpse floating in rivers, but only in Varanasi, which is where the majority of the pictures in the 'article' were taken. Oddly, when you're there, it doesnt really strike you as strange - it simply part of the Hindu faith.

Good point. Currently caste exists in three ways.

1) the government gives lower castes who claim discrimination quotas in universities, civil jobs etc. I.e affirmitive action

2) general stereotypes i.e people here call someone trailer trash or downriver trash, there they use sudra etc as derogatory terms

3)some people worry about caste for marriage

India has improved tremendously in the last two decades. They need to focus on infrastructure and hygiene next, the biggest obstacles being convincing the bottom 30% of the country to please stop popping out 4-5 kids and the top 5% to stop the damn corruption.

That said, theres a small house by Madras with a Block S in it and you're welcome to visit if we're there at the same time, nothing but fresh air and coconuts for kilometers, and one of the few places on earth that affords you the same freedoms and liberties the west take for granted :)

Before bed? Hell, I'm about to eat dinner.

I'm on mobile, so I can post the pic...but what would cause whatever's wrong with the guy who carries the dead bodies??? That might be the most disturbing part.

India, like much of the world, is totally fucking gross from our 1st world perspective.

It's also fucking awesome.

You take the good with the bad, and the bad with a horrible case of the shits. It is what it is.

OK people really dont know what the fuck a caste system is according to hindu scriptures. Hinduism says that there are 4 castes and they are brahmins, kshatriyas, vaishyas, and shudras. Brahmins are the highest authoritarian vise because they are the high priests and they are closest to the gods. Kshatriyas are kings, nobleman, rules, lords etc. Viashyas are business man and traders. And Shudras are workers and peasants. Basically what the original caste system did was just divide the work force into 4 groups and there was no such thing as untouchables and so so. But Brahmins couldnt be kings, and kings couldnt be actual brahmins because of the notion of closure to god.

However over the years, the system got diluted and people started to use the caste system to their own personal benefit. Eventually the untouchables emerged and were relegated to the dirty works. The caste system got corrupted for personal favors and eventually the whole system got screwed up.

So the bottom line is caste system was not meant to be a division among the people for rich vs poor but a division among work force. However human nature is such that eventually personal benefits and greed took over and messed everything up. Even now adays a lot of indian people's last name reflect the work that their ancestors did. For ex. Patel (the most common indian last name in west india) is actually a corrupted word from the original meaning "Patidar". It means the head landlord or villagelord and they were eventually either vaishyas or sudras because of their work. However nowadays many patels are politicians, rich businessmen, or sewage workers. So the caste system was not meant to divide rich vs poor but the working force. Nowhere in hindu scriptures did it say that a certain caste is not human and are meant to be thrown out on the streets

This is a fascinating thread. My coworkers have been to India, and some of them are from there... I would love to go there myself. All of the Indian people I know/work with are awesome, kind people. I like learning about things that are wildly different than my own point of view.

Jim Crow laws ring a bell?

For once I'm actually trying not to be a smartass, and give a better perception of what it's like today

I've been there once for about two weeks - visited Dehli and Hyderbad (for work).

Never saw any dead bodies like the pictures portray. The place is disgusting though. It isn't just that they are poor, they just are dirty and don't pickup anything.

That said, most people there actually seem very happy and at no point did I feel unsafe - and I was clearly an outsider.

I don't need to go back, but I do recommend to anyone that gets the chance to go ... go ... once. It is a life changing type of trip seeing what you see.

The blog OP linked to seems to be using a few shocking photos to claim that the entire country is like that - almost like showing a few pictures of Detroit and South Central LA and claiming the US as a whole is a violent, run down mess.

Just my 2 paisa worth.

Actually, I enjoyed this thread. Of course, I have a vested interested, being a Hindu who was born in India.

I came to the US at the age of 11, so I have a pretty neutral/objective opinion of India. Here are some good take-aways from this thread, for Westerners:

1. Yes, it is dirty. The harsh climate (hot, dry, dusty), lack of services, and people's lifestyle contribute to that.
2. Yes, people keep their houses clean, but dump their trash on the streets.
3. It is what it is. Take the good with the bad.
4. Poverty, overpopulation, harsh climate and lack of fresh water make it what it is. People need water to live and to carry out their daily business, so they'll take water any way they can - contaminated...dead bodies...whatever.
5. Corruption and screwed up priorities get in the way of progress. For every 2 steps forward, India takes 1.5 steps back.
6. Stay away from the Ganges, unless you're way, way upriver (in the Himalayan foothills). I'm from the foothills, so I've seen the good Ganges ,and I've bathed in it. I've also seen the bad Ganges, and yes, it is bad. I'd never get near that water! Heck, I'd never get in a boat floating in that water!
7. It is very easy to sit in our comfortable living rooms, look at a few pictures showing the worst of the worst conditions, and make judgments.
8. We are very lucky to be living in this nation and enjoying the high standards of living (even for the poor, relatively speaking).

Final Note: Improvements are taking place in India (slowly). Twenty years ago, I used to advise Americans to stay away from the Taj Mahal. Yes, it was always beautiful, but to get to the Taj, you had to drive/walk/fight through one of the dirties and most congested areas of town. But I visited the Taj with my kids two years ago. Man, have they done a nice job with that place!!