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GMSparty12 said...
I doubt, unless there's a player that is really, really serious about being a Spartan, MSU would take a SR.
If you take Jordan Hill, what do you tell Hoover or the other DTs? I get the competition thing, but you ruffle a lot of feathers with current players IMO. I don't see any glaring holes on the team (other than MAYBE wr) that we need to plug with Nittany Lions. Silas Redd is their best player, but I can't think a better way of pissing off Le'veon, Larry and Nick, who have all had success and put in the time as Spartans.
This is probably here nor there though, I don't see it happening period from both MSU and the players perspective.
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SpartanRocky said...
I'll break it down for you, because the sanctions working together are much more devastating to the individually ( and they're pretty bad individually).
First, for the '13-16 seasons, PSU can recruit only 15 kids/class. This is NOT like USC's 10 schollie/year limit, which reduced the overall # of guys that could play at USC in any given year to 75. This is a reduction of the # of NEW scholarships that can be offered.
While other teams can sign 25 kids/year for the next 4 seasons for a possible total of 100, PSU can only sign 15/year, for a grand total of 60.
Then, starting in '14 until the '17 season, PSU can have no more than 65 players on scholarships. This IS like the USC penalty, in that it does not limit the size of the incoming class, but rather the total # of scholarship players.
Here's where it gets a little confusing. The NCAA has made it o.k. for ALL PSU players to transfer without penalty. Not a huge penalty, right? They'll lose 5-8 guys or something like that.
It's devastating.
PSU recruited normally for the past decade or so. Their outgoing SR class is likely in the 22-23 range; about what their projected recruiting class is. In '12, there are no scholarship restrictions, just the bowl ban.
However, PSU is only allowed to recruit 15 kids in the '13 class. Basically, after the first fifteen players to leave PSU, due to graduation/transfer/whatever, PSU cannot fill that roster spot for the '13 season.
Take my example above. Say PSU expects 22-23 SRs/early draftees to come out. Say another 7-8 transfer. PSU just lost 30 kids in one year of their 85. They can only replace them with 15, no matter what. In effect, PSU has lost 15 scholarships for the '13 season and will play with just 70 scholarship players. In the next cycle, say they lose more transfers, and have another "normal" SR class of 20 kids, for a total of 24 kids leaving after the '13 season.
They can only replace those with 15 more guys. That leaves PSU with 61 total scholarship players for the '14 season.
Your point about the 3-deep is well taken, but somewhat misguided. It's true you can field a team with 65 players. You can even have a 2-deep with good players. What you can't have, however, is much of a scout team. You can't afford to red-shirt players; RS a class of 15 when you only have 65 guys on scholarship gives you 50 scholarship players . . . or barely enough to fill out a 2-deep.
Every single injury counts, because even your 3rd stringers may be called to play. Your special teams are going to be comprised of starters. You have 0 room for error in recruiting; one bad OL cycle and your team is left with nothing on the line.
The normal injuries/guys who just don't work out will be crushing to PSU. It takes 85 guys for MSU to find 50-60 or so that are capable of playing every Saturday. PSU needs the same success, but instead of room for 20 or so guys who don't quite pan out, they have room for 5. Maybe.
Basically the wear and tear on everyone goes up; your players are going to be forced to play more plays, and inexperienced players are going to be thrust into PT roles. Scout team guys can afford to go all out because they aren't playing on game-day, which in turn helps the starters. In this case, your Scout team is probably going to be 2nd and 3rd string guys, or basically guys who could reasonably be called in on a Saturday to play. They can't go all out because if one of them gets hurt, all of a sudden you're down to 3 healthy CBs.
This is absolutely devastating. The 15 scholarships/year means that any type of mass exodus cannot be replaced. Additionally, the quality of players that want to come to PSU is going to decline. They're going to face the '18 season with quite literally a bunch of MAC players, and a depleted roster. It'll take till 2020 for them to field a true 85 man team, and there won't be quality SR talent there until 2012 at the earliest.
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GMSparty12 said...
Good point. I was more implying the possibility of bringing in a vet receiver for this year due to the WR corp being so young.
But I would agree, there's a ton of depth there. It's not a #s issue but an experience issue.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
Adding Hill, who had 59 tackles last season from the DT position, would really make DT a strength. All of a sudden you're not relying on the undersized kittredge, or converted DE Hoover, but both can be rotated to create specific favorable match-ups. Toss in Reynolds and Clemons, and you've got a very solid 3-deep.
Really, Hill is about the only PSU player I'd really like to see. Redd could be useful; Caper has concussion concerns and Hill has never proven he can do no more than be a KR. Getting Redd to pair with Bell would give MSU the best backfield outside of WI.
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SpartanRocky said...
Adding Hill, who had 59 tackles last season from the DT position, would really make DT a strength. All of a sudden you're not relying on the undersized kittredge, or converted DE Hoover, but both can be rotated to create specific favorable match-ups. Toss in Reynolds and Clemons, and you've got a very solid 3-deep.
Really, Hill is about the only PSU player I'd really like to see. Redd could be useful; Caper has concussion concerns and Hill has never proven he can do no more than be a KR. Getting Redd to pair with Bell would give MSU the best backfield outside of WI.
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GMSparty12 said...
I don't disagree Hill is a player, but as been stated earlier in the thread is you *could* have some chemistry issues. In my opinion, that's something to be cognizant of being so close to fall camp. I don't know - I like the look of the D. I'm not saying improvements can't be made (they can always be made), but I think any tinkering should be made very tactfully.
I don't see Redd coming here.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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RPMadMSU said...
I got to be wondering about these coaches telling their kids all off season that they are their guys and having them compete, lift weights, and having them do what it takes to compete for playing....
....just to turn around and bring some one new in at the last minute from outside the program.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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SpartanRocky said...
Depends on the position. I don't think MSU is looking to bring in McGloin to take over for Maxwell or anything like that; I agree that that could hurt chemistry.
But, if a team is young and/or thin at a position, adding a quality player to that rotation could erase a weakness and give that team an extra W or 2. Say you're a team that's playing 2 Sophs and a RS FR at LB this year. Are those kids really going to be upset if 1st Team All B10 Gerald Hodges shows up on campus, helps show them the ropes and gets them to a NYD bowl?
How is it any different than Linthicum transferring in when MSU had David Durant, Garret Celek and Charlie Gantt in the fold already? Or Kittredge transferring when MSU took 4 DTs 1 class behind him?
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SpartanRocky said...
Depends on the position. I don't think MSU is looking to bring in McGloin to take over for Maxwell or anything like that; I agree that that could hurt chemistry.
But, if a team is young and/or thin at a position, adding a quality player to that rotation could erase a weakness and give that team an extra W or 2. Say you're a team that's playing 2 Sophs and a RS FR at LB this year. Are those kids really going to be upset if 1st Team All B10 Gerald Hodges shows up on campus, helps show them the ropes and gets them to a NYD bowl?
How is it any different than Linthicum transferring in when MSU had David Durant, Garret Celek and Charlie Gantt in the fold already? Or Kittredge transferring when MSU took 4 DTs 1 class behind him?
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RPMadMSU said...
Different in a sense that it's a couple weeks before fall practice starts and they haven't been competing for playing time all along.
I'm not sure MSU has too many positions they are thin enough at to risk alienating kids by "replacing" them this close or closer to camps. DT maybe...but where else...TE???
Thats why I doubt MSU will go after any upperclassmen. I think they'll hit PSU verbal list hard, an maybe a Sr. from a select position.
This post was edited by SpartanRocky on 7/24/2012 at 10:35 AM
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
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Penn State standout tailback Silas Redd still unsure of future ... a future that might include a transfer to USC
Silas Redd's father, Silas Redd Sr., tells Patriot-News the Redd family is with regard to a possible transfer to USC.
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What Do PSU Sanctions Mean For MSU?