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When will Thad Matta realize

  • That if you play a 6/7 man rotation your team is inevitably going to begin to ware down by the end of the year. The commentators last night were noting that several OSU starters were huffing and puffing during timeouts frequently with still about 10 minutes left to play. If you are a this level there is no excuse for huffing and puffing with 10 minutes left. If you play a longer bench this does not happen.

    During MSU's game with OSU Tom Izzo reportedly told AP and Nix to sprint down the floor to offense every possession no matter what so Jared would have to sprint too. Big Sully ended up playing the full 40 that game too, so I have to believe that Izzo's strategy was a causatory effect resulting in numerous turnovers and other bad plays.

    Finally, when you are winded and your legs get heavy the last thing you want to do is attack the basket like you should. A tired basketball player would rather settle for a bad jump shot then create an open look. The superstars of the world have the ability to fight this urge to a degree, but college level players aren't as seasoned and wise. i.e Buford throwing up wild Jump shots vs MSU. To add to the problem when you're tired you don't shoot as well directly because of tired legs. Coach Matta's post game was essentially just about his team not making shots. I believe it is a result of the season taking its toll on these 5 starters plus facing good defenses.

    OSU will never, ever go far in the tournament because of this. They can have all the talent in the world but if they never get any production out of their bench their starters will inevitably have one bad game and no one will be there to bail them out. Izzo teams that make deep runs have key bench players. Most recent players to come to mind are Draymond Green in 09 and Drew Neitzel in 05. This year I see that guy being either Brandon Wood or Austin Thornton (Determined by who ever is coming off the bench), plus the 1-2 punch of AP and D.Nix is wonderful, and a dark horse is Brandan Kearney.

    Deep Benches=Final Fours

    signature image

    Bungholeman

  • Bungholeman said...

    That if you play a 6/7 man rotation your team is inevitably going to begin to ware down by the end of the year. The commentators last night were noting that several OSU starters were huffing and puffing during timeouts frequently with still about 10 minutes left to play. If you are a this level there is no excuse for huffing and puffing with 10 minutes left. If you play a longer bench this does not happen.

    During MSU's game with OSU Tom Izzo reportedly told AP and Nix to sprint down the floor to offense every possession no matter what so Jared would have to sprint too. Big Sully ended up playing the full 40 that game too, so I have to believe that Izzo's strategy was a causatory effect resulting in numerous turnovers and other bad plays.

    Finally, when you are winded and your legs get heavy the last thing you want to do is attack the basket like you should. A tired basketball player would rather settle for a bad jump shot then create an open look. The superstars of the world have the ability to fight this urge to a degree, but college level players aren't as seasoned and wise. i.e Buford throwing up wild Jump shots vs MSU. To add to the problem when you're tired you don't shoot as well directly because of tired legs. Coach Matta's post game was essentially just about his team not making shots. I believe it is a result of the season taking its toll on these 5 starters plus facing good defenses.

    OSU will never, ever go far in the tournament because of this. They can have all the talent in the world but if they never get any production out of their bench their starters will inevitably have one bad game and no one will be there to bail them out. Izzo teams that make deep runs have key bench players. Most recent players to come to mind are Draymond Green in 09 and Drew Neitzel in 05. This year I see that guy being either Brandon Wood or Austin Thornton (Determined by who ever is coming off the bench), plus the 1-2 punch of AP and D.Nix is wonderful, and a dark horse is Brandan Kearney.

    Deep Benches=Final Fours

    I agree with your analysis. +1

    signature image

    tRCMB's resident Wayne State Warrior and Sam's Club Spartan fan.

    fishrose ●

  • Matta is such a horrible coach I'd shoot his laptop

    Frank Ricard

  • Well said, but I have no problem with the way he coaches.

    Boys, I may not know much, but I know chicken shit from chicken salad. -- Lyndon Johnson

    James McNulty

  • It worked fine with Oden and Conley's team. That team had no bench. Matta's issue, both over the course of a season and during a single game, is his refusal to make adjustments. He sticks with what he has and what he does.

    Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.

    rookmsu ●

  • rookmsu said...

    It worked fine with Oden and Conley's team. That team had no bench. Matta's issue, both over the course of a season and during a single game, is his refusal to make adjustments. He sticks with what he has and what he does.

    I'd argue Oden and Conley's OSU team are an obvious outlier by the sheer talent on that team. Oden was a man, check that an Old Man, among boys and Conley was a damn good point guard. Talent wise this years OSU team pales in comparison. But even with all that A list talent they couldn't take home the whole enchilada that year. Thad Matta will always be a superb recruiter and a below average everything else.

    signature image

    Bungholeman

  • rookmsu said...

    It worked fine with Oden and Conley's team. That team had no bench. Matta's issue, both over the course of a season and during a single game, is his refusal to make adjustments. He sticks with what he has and what he does.

    While I agree that Matta sucks at making adjustments, that Oden/Conley team had several players who could take over a game at any time. I don't think Matta is confident in anyone on his current team other than Sullinger to provide the offense. Buford and Thomas(?) can have big days, but in the limited times I've seen them, it seems to be a result of Sullinger having a big day, and drawing the defense.

    Rodeo Burger

  • Bungholeman said...

    I'd argue Oden and Conley's OSU team are an obvious outlier by the sheer talent on that team. Oden was a man, check that an Old Man, among boys and Conley was a damn good point guard. Talent wise this years OSU team pales in comparison. But even with all that A list talent they couldn't take home the whole enchilada that year. Thad Matta will always be a superb recruiter and a below average everything else.

    In fairness, they lost to a Florida team that ranks among the best teams of the last 30 seasons. That's no indictment on Matta.

    Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.

    rookmsu ●

  • rookmsu said...

    It worked fine with Oden and Conley's team. That team had no bench. Matta's issue, both over the course of a season and during a single game, is his refusal to make adjustments. He sticks with what he has and what he does.

    Yep. The problem isn't the short bench. Against a good defensive team Craft and Smith are basically going to give you nothing. They can't get their own shot, they can't create shots for others. Buford is a good scorer but a horrible decision maker. Add in Matta's in-game coaching and it's not a recipe for greatness.

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    I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war.

    GhettoHeisman

  • rookmsu said...

    In fairness, they lost to a Florida team that ranks among the best teams of the last 30 seasons. That's no indictment on Matta.

    +1 True that, True that.

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    Bungholeman

  • And in no way am I saying the short bench is Matta's only weakness because there are many but I think using a short bench allows other problems such as bad shooting among others to manifest themselves more frequently as the season progresses.

    signature image

    Bungholeman

  • Spartan fans may forget that this bench issue was a strong part of the Heathcote years. Our 1986 team that went to the NCAA Sweet Sixteen had Skiles playing some 38 minutes a game, Darryl Johnson played 36, and we went about 6-deep in a tight game. For State in that era, there was often a significant leap in talent from the starters to the bench, so Jud typically played a short bench. I think you're point about having legs at the end of the season is correct, but Matta may simply not have a bench he trusts, and that may be an issue of recruiting. I think it is much harder to recruit players who have to wait their turn, or who may never end up being a starter on their way to the NBA.........

    This post was edited by Heathens 87 on 2/19/2012 at 8:40 AM

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." --Gandhi

    Heathens 87

  • rookmsu said...

    It worked fine with Oden and Conley's team. That team had no bench. Matta's issue, both over the course of a season and during a single game, is his refusal to make adjustments. He sticks with what he has and what he does.

    The 2006-07 team had 8 players average more than 16 minutes a game. This year's team has five guys averaging over 23.8 minute and then four guys in the 10-12 minute range.

    Depth - or, more specifically, Matta's unwillingness to play most young guys in any meaningful conference games - has been a huge problem with OSU in the post-Oden era.

    SpartanBoiler

  • I agree with this and have been saying it for a few years about OSU. They play 5 guys. They could maybe get away with playing 7 guys if the 2 guys off the bench got 30 minutes each, but they don't they combine for 20-25 bench minutes totaal for the team, that means the starters are averaging 35 minutes each.

    This is a philosophy that you can't pick up midseason. You needed to develop these players all year long so you could trust them to get quality minutes in big games late in the season. It's too late now for OSU, these games are all big now and you can't play totally unproven guys who haven't seen the court all year.

    U of M is only marginally better in this respect especially in respect to PG. Burke is wearing down.

    Johnny2x2x ●

  • Johnny2x2x said...

    I agree with this and have been saying it for a few years about OSU. They play 5 guys. They could maybe get away with playing 7 guys if the 2 guys off the bench got 30 minutes each, but they don't they combine for 20-25 bench minutes totaal for the team, that means the starters are averaging 35 minutes each.

    This is a philosophy that you can't pick up midseason. You needed to develop these players all year long so you could trust them to get quality minutes in big games late in the season. It's too late now for OSU, these games are all big now and you can't play totally unproven guys who haven't seen the court all year.

    U of M is only marginally better in this respect especially in respect to PG. Burke is wearing down.

    Yeah, Michigan is actually worse than OSU at this. They have six guys above 21 minutes and two guys at 10 minutes. Burke's 35 MPG is 5th in the conference, 74th in the country, and three minutes more than Draymond. That's a big load for a freshman.

    SpartanBoiler

  • Matta will never learn

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    Bungholeman

  • In every sport you 100% need solid role players to win anything. You absolutely need the guys that don't get press or recognition. That is the key to any great team.

    I will switch to soccer and point right to Claudio Reyna. The US fans love to hate him because he didn't score goals, but the USMNT has never had anyone run the engine room like him and they won a ton because of him. You NEED players whose SOLE job is to do the dirty work to win. Izzo gets these guys and that is a big time reason he is successful. He has never had the most talented team going into the tourney, but he almost always has one of the best.

    This post was edited by SBSpartan on 2/26/2012 at 5:16 PM

    This country was built by people who worked hard then went home and had just a few too many every night. Then went back to work.

    SBSpartan

  • Nice bump, I was going to start something similar. If I were an OSU fan, I would be pissed. You can't keep bringing in that much talent and falling apart at the end of the year. Maybe they go on a run and improve, but I just don't see it right now. Refs were trying to help them out today and they won't get that in March.

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    Now knowing what 1995 is like all over again! Thank you 247 technology!!

    InTenSity

  • Sullinger is no Oden.

    Craft is no Conley.

    JMCSpartan08

  • When will thad Matta realize...

    Apparently NEVER... and I'm good with that.

    Nίκη για MSU

    Bender

  • SBSpartan said...

    In every sport you 100% need solid role players to win anything. You absolutely need the guys that don't get press or recognition. That is the key to any great team.

    This. I'd upvote you but I'm all out.

    ass dan ●

  • People give Izzo shit for playing the Thortons, Dhalman's, and bench players who don't get a lot of time, I just hope that people understand that is a much better strategy that will cost you a few games in November, but should help out come March. King1

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    Now knowing what 1995 is like all over again! Thank you 247 technology!!

    InTenSity

  • One of the talking heads at half time had also offered another piece of analysis that I enjoyed. He showed players being a step late to rotate over, which resulted in easy looks for wisconsin. That is a direct consequence of being tired. I'll have them exiting the tourney either the the round of 32 or elite 8 depending on match up because they simply won't be able to play a good team on 2 days rest.

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    Bungholeman

  • I don't know, I thought the play he drew up at the end of the game was genius. Heave am awkward 3 early in the possession as if there was no time left. Pure coaching genius there.

    "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." - Mark Dantonio.

    JMSparty08

  • InTenSity said...

    People give Izzo shit for playing the Thortons, Dhalman's, and bench players who don't get a lot of time, I just hope that people understand that is a much better strategy that will cost you a few games in November, but should help out come March. King1

    This!

    Belowtherim

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