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Rocket_Play
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DWags
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Rocket_Play said...
Not all abilities are equal. I personally think coach D has done a downright amazing job with the talent he's had. I do not, however, agree that he has some unmatched ability to see talent where others don't. He develops it. To think what he could do with more raw ability.... Man I just don't understand why we all don't want to see that.
No we all want less talent
- It is only by separating ourselves as a university that we get that upper level talent that won't be done by a hard sell. It is not to say that I believe that MD isn't vigorously chasing the best talent he can possibly find but he won't do it at the expense of compromising what he has developed as a program. Rightfully so -
Isatoner said...
No we all want less talent
- It is only by separating ourselves as a university that we get that upper level talent that won't be done by a hard sell. It is not to say that I believe that MD isn't vigorously chasing the best talent he can possibly find but he won't do it at the expense of compromising what he has developed as a program. Rightfully so
duffy munn ●
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D.Wags said...
Again, could somebody answer what exactly you believe he is doing or not doing? Do you believe he's not working hard enough? If so, I think you're crazy. Or, do you believe it's our university that is making these 5 star messiahs go elsewhere? If the ladder is your belief, I'd say let him string one or two more 10-11 victory seasons and great bowl games and see what happens.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
SpartanRocky
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SpartanRocky said...
Off of this, folks may not realize what building a winning tradition means. I've posted this before, so I apologize for repetition:
Look at the dozen or so schools who are the perennial recruiting powers:
Alabama, USC, LSU, Georgia, Michigan, Notre Dame, Florida State, Miami(Fl), tOSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma.
All of those schools, except ND, UM and OK are sitting in recruiting hotbeds, and OK is bordering TX. ND and UM have the most W's of any CFB program, as MSU fans hear ad nauseum.
In short, recruiting success either comes from sitting around a bunch of great local talent AND/OR having a ridiculous # of W's associated with your program. As good as the last few years have been for MSU, there is no way that State has the "name" of those programs above.
At least not yet.
Building a brand takes time, and I'm not talking about 5 years. MSU needs at least a full decade of solid winning to start building a national reputation. It's really been 2 years.
I'm laughing at Tanfan's "sell the hell out of the 11 W seasons", when other schools on that list can sell recent NC's, Heismans and BCS bowls. MSU is doing better than it has in a long time, but there's still a long way to go. Some of you seem to think that the reason MSU isn't pulling 5-stars left right and sideways is because the coaches aren't demanding those guys commit or aren't telling them about MSU's recent success.
That's simply ridiculous. The truth is that most talent stays local, and the talent in MI hasn't been great the past few years. It's no coincidence that MSU's best recruiting class by stars, 2009, was also the last year the state of MI had double-digit 4-star recruits (11). Since then it's been about 6-8/class.
I strongly feel that the in-state talent will break along childhood allegiences in the future. UM has more fans in the state; you all make fun of the "Walverines", but ineviteably those people are going to have kids, and some of those kids end up as D-1 athletes. It's the same reason that Notre Dame's "name" is still strong; a kid's parents and coaches remember when ND was great, and pass that view down to their kids.
In any event, Hoke isn't "sucking up all the in-state talent", as much as he's getting the lifelong UM fans to commit. We all know that Cass Tech is a UM pipeline as well; there's a former player as the HC and they haven't sent a kid to MSU in about 10 years. Look at UM's in-state recruiting this year:
Shane Morris - UM fan Wyatt Shallman - UM fan Jourdan Lewis - Cass David Dawson - Cass Khalid Hill - No MSU offer, only offer other than UM was CMU
Show which guy on that list "should have been a Spartan" that the coaching staff missed on.
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AASpartan
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CalvinsJohnson8
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SpartanRocky said...
Off of this, folks may not realize what building a winning tradition means. I've posted this before, so I apologize for repetition:
Look at the dozen or so schools who are the perennial recruiting powers:
Alabama, USC, LSU, Georgia, Michigan, Notre Dame, Florida State, Miami(Fl), tOSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma.
All of those schools, except ND, UM and OK are sitting in recruiting hotbeds, and OK is bordering TX. ND and UM have the most W's of any CFB program, as MSU fans hear ad nauseum.
In short, recruiting success either comes from sitting around a bunch of great local talent AND/OR having a ridiculous # of W's associated with your program. As good as the last few years have been for MSU, there is no way that State has the "name" of those programs above.
At least not yet.
Building a brand takes time, and I'm not talking about 5 years. MSU needs at least a full decade of solid winning to start building a national reputation. It's really been 2 years.
I'm laughing at Tanfan's "sell the hell out of the 11 W seasons", when other schools on that list can sell recent NC's, Heismans and BCS bowls. MSU is doing better than it has in a long time, but there's still a long way to go. Some of you seem to think that the reason MSU isn't pulling 5-stars left right and sideways is because the coaches aren't demanding those guys commit or aren't telling them about MSU's recent success.
That's simply ridiculous. The truth is that most talent stays local, and the talent in MI hasn't been great the past few years. It's no coincidence that MSU's best recruiting class by stars, 2009, was also the last year the state of MI had double-digit 4-star recruits (11). Since then it's been about 6-8/class.
I strongly feel that the in-state talent will break along childhood allegiences in the future. UM has more fans in the state; you all make fun of the "Walverines", but ineviteably those people are going to have kids, and some of those kids end up as D-1 athletes. It's the same reason that Notre Dame's "name" is still strong; a kid's parents and coaches remember when ND was great, and pass that view down to their kids.
In any event, Hoke isn't "sucking up all the in-state talent", as much as he's getting the lifelong UM fans to commit. We all know that Cass Tech is a UM pipeline as well; there's a former player as the HC and they haven't sent a kid to MSU in about 10 years. Look at UM's in-state recruiting this year:
Shane Morris - UM fan Wyatt Shallman - UM fan Jourdan Lewis - Cass David Dawson - Cass Khalid Hill - No MSU offer, only offer other than UM was CMU
Show which guy on that list "should have been a Spartan" that the coaching staff missed on.
duffy munn ●
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SpartanRocky said...
Off of this, folks may not realize what building a winning tradition means. I've posted this before, so I apologize for repetition:
Look at the dozen or so schools who are the perennial recruiting powers:
Alabama, USC, LSU, Georgia, Michigan, Notre Dame, Florida State, Miami(Fl), tOSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma.
All of those schools, except ND, UM and OK are sitting in recruiting hotbeds, and OK is bordering TX. ND and UM have the most W's of any CFB program, as MSU fans hear ad nauseum.
In short, recruiting success either comes from sitting around a bunch of great local talent AND/OR having a ridiculous # of W's associated with your program. As good as the last few years have been for MSU, there is no way that State has the "name" of those programs above.
At least not yet.
Building a brand takes time, and I'm not talking about 5 years. MSU needs at least a full decade of solid winning to start building a national reputation. It's really been 2 years.
I'm laughing at Tanfan's "sell the hell out of the 11 W seasons", when other schools on that list can sell recent NC's, Heismans and BCS bowls. MSU is doing better than it has in a long time, but there's still a long way to go. Some of you seem to think that the reason MSU isn't pulling 5-stars left right and sideways is because the coaches aren't demanding those guys commit or aren't telling them about MSU's recent success.
That's simply ridiculous. The truth is that most talent stays local, and the talent in MI hasn't been great the past few years. It's no coincidence that MSU's best recruiting class by stars, 2009, was also the last year the state of MI had double-digit 4-star recruits (11). Since then it's been about 6-8/class.
I strongly feel that the in-state talent will break along childhood allegiences in the future. UM has more fans in the state; you all make fun of the "Walverines", but ineviteably those people are going to have kids, and some of those kids end up as D-1 athletes. It's the same reason that Notre Dame's "name" is still strong; a kid's parents and coaches remember when ND was great, and pass that view down to their kids.
In any event, Hoke isn't "sucking up all the in-state talent", as much as he's getting the lifelong UM fans to commit. We all know that Cass Tech is a UM pipeline as well; there's a former player as the HC and they haven't sent a kid to MSU in about 10 years. Look at UM's in-state recruiting this year:
Shane Morris - UM fan Wyatt Shallman - UM fan Jourdan Lewis - Cass David Dawson - Cass Khalid Hill - No MSU offer, only offer other than UM was CMU
Show which guy on that list "should have been a Spartan" that the coaching staff missed on.
-
duffy munn said...
Any opinion that we aren't doing 100% the bestest we can and that there is no room for inprovement except for a decade from now will not be tolerated.
"As far as the downvotes. It's a gnat biting an lion" -- A member of tRCMB Justice League, taking the internet WAY WAY too seriously.
Rocket_Play
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Rocket_Play
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duffy munn ●
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AASpartan
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AASpartan said...
There are many problems with the hard sell. One of them is that it could not make a lick of difference, but then we're compromising what we're about. We'd also probably see a lot more decommits which would screw up our classes as we'd have to scramble to fill the holes. The reason that we have small classes like the 2013 one is because we have a minimal amount of attrition. That's in part due to having kids that 100% buy in to the program.
this isn't a hill I plan to die on. I do stand by my original point that if you only want kids who really want to be Spartans, as if that will somehow effect their onfield performance, you are just wrong. There are several players on our roster who probably had another school they liked more, but have come to love MSU. I don't think the degree to which a kid wants to be a Spartan is important. Once you get here, you will love it. It's also worth noting that posters who are far more knowledgeable about recruiting, CBD for example, think we could benefit by turning up the heat a bit so to speak. I'll defer to his expertise on the subject. "As far as the downvotes. It's a gnat biting an lion" -- A member of tRCMB Justice League, taking the internet WAY WAY too seriously.
Rocket_Play
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Rocket_Play said...
this isn't a hill I plan to die on. I do stand by my original point that if you only want kids who really want to be Spartans, as if that will somehow effect their onfield performance, you are just wrong. There are several players on our roster who probably had another school they liked more, but have come to love MSU. I don't think the degree to which a kid wants to be a Spartan is important. Once you get here, you will love it. It's also worth noting that posters who are far more knowledgeable about recruiting, CBD for example, think we could benefit by turning up the heat a bit so to speak. I'll defer to his expertise on the subject.
-
Tanfan said...
Nobody is saying we suck right now. We want sustained success. The sunshiners are extreme in their views and viciously attack in packs like the former t clique. They can't have a rational discussion, and they want Only their voices heard on here. Somebody's got to call their spin out and that is my mission in life. Lol.
Posting member of tRCMB since 1997. It is ALWAYS a great day to be a Spartan!!!!
Raytooth Morgan
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Raytooth Morgan said...
While I agree that the sunshiners are over the top I think you are flat out wrong. The handful of 2 stars that Dantonio has picked up in his time here have not been your garden variety JLS type 2 stars. Many of the 3 stars that he has picked up have become major impact players that will get drafted by the NFL (Cousins, Worthy to name 2). Looking at some of these guys that have committed the last 2 years and seeing their measurables and stat lines and accomplishments I honestly wonder why some of them (Tompkins to name one) aren't 4 stars. They certainly have the credentials of many players that are listed as 4 star players.
ND has finished better than MSU every single season in recruiting since the beginning of time and it hasn't translated into much for them on the field in quite some time. They have had worse records than MSU in just about every MD lead season so far. SCum has a roster full of 4 stars and we have beat them 4 straight years. That roster literally is almost all 4 stars yet their top 2 QB's can't throw for shit, they are very thin at OL and DL and WR as well.
MD has picked up a bunch of 3 star caliber players with only MAC offers because him and his entire staff are amazing at seeing talent and jumping on it early. Many of these players have or currently are making a difference on the field and helping us to beat SCum's 4 and 5 stars like a drum every single year.
I'm fine with what MD is doing because its working. He is bringing in guys who buy in and bust ass and improve. The coaches are excellent at making these guys better. I think you will continue to see MSU actually get more 4 stars as time goes forward and success is sustained longer and longer. This program isn't going anywhere and isn't going to cower behind SCum's coattails even if cHoke "beats us" on the recruiting trail every single year.
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Rocket_Play said...
this isn't a hill I plan to die on. I do stand by my original point that if you only want kids who really want to be Spartans, as if that will somehow effect their onfield performance, you are just wrong. There are several players on our roster who probably had another school they liked more, but have come to love MSU. I don't think the degree to which a kid wants to be a Spartan is important. Once you get here, you will love it. It's also worth noting that posters who are far more knowledgeable about recruiting, CBD for example, think we could benefit by turning up the heat a bit so to speak. I'll defer to his expertise on the subject.
F Michigan
AASpartan
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SpartanRocky said...
Off of this, folks may not realize what building a winning tradition means. I've posted this before, so I apologize for repetition:
Look at the dozen or so schools who are the perennial recruiting powers:
Alabama, USC, LSU, Georgia, Michigan, Notre Dame, Florida State, Miami(Fl), tOSU, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma.
All of those schools, except ND, UM and OK are sitting in recruiting hotbeds, and OK is bordering TX. ND and UM have the most W's of any CFB program, as MSU fans hear ad nauseum.
In short, recruiting success either comes from sitting around a bunch of great local talent AND/OR having a ridiculous # of W's associated with your program. As good as the last few years have been for MSU, there is no way that State has the "name" of those programs above.
At least not yet.
Building a brand takes time, and I'm not talking about 5 years. MSU needs at least a full decade of solid winning to start building a national reputation. It's really been 2 years.
I'm laughing at Tanfan's "sell the hell out of the 11 W seasons", when other schools on that list can sell recent NC's, Heismans and BCS bowls. MSU is doing better than it has in a long time, but there's still a long way to go. Some of you seem to think that the reason MSU isn't pulling 5-stars left right and sideways is because the coaches aren't demanding those guys commit or aren't telling them about MSU's recent success.
That's simply ridiculous. The truth is that most talent stays local, and the talent in MI hasn't been great the past few years. It's no coincidence that MSU's best recruiting class by stars, 2009, was also the last year the state of MI had double-digit 4-star recruits (11). Since then it's been about 6-8/class.
I strongly feel that the in-state talent will break along childhood allegiences in the future. UM has more fans in the state; you all make fun of the "Walverines", but ineviteably those people are going to have kids, and some of those kids end up as D-1 athletes. It's the same reason that Notre Dame's "name" is still strong; a kid's parents and coaches remember when ND was great, and pass that view down to their kids.
In any event, Hoke isn't "sucking up all the in-state talent", as much as he's getting the lifelong UM fans to commit. We all know that Cass Tech is a UM pipeline as well; there's a former player as the HC and they haven't sent a kid to MSU in about 10 years. Look at UM's in-state recruiting this year:
Shane Morris - UM fan
Wyatt Shallman - UM fan
Jourdan Lewis - Cass
David Dawson - Cass
Khalid Hill - No MSU offer, only offer other than UM was CMUShow which guy on that list "should have been a Spartan" that the coaching staff missed on.
Anyone. Anyplace. Anytime.
-
Rocket_Play said...
this isn't a hill I plan to die on. I do stand by my original point that if you only want kids who really want to be Spartans, as if that will somehow effect their onfield performance, you are just wrong. There are several players on our roster who probably had another school they liked more, but have come to love MSU. I don't think the degree to which a kid wants to be a Spartan is important. Once you get here, you will love it. It's also worth noting that posters who are far more knowledgeable about recruiting, CBD for example, think we could benefit by turning up the heat a bit so to speak. I'll defer to his expertise on the subject.
-
rookmsu said...
Crucial point here about high school coaches. Big part of the long term battle. A coach I know in a major high school program told me that a huge portion of high school coaches are UM slaps, which is another obstacle to overcome.
Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.
SpartanRocky
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You guys that try to steer the RCMB. WTF?