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recruiting long sell vs short sell

  • Coach D does an exceptional job slow playing the kids that really want to develop a relationship with the staff before committing. No argument there. Is there a way, however, to somehow determine which kids fit that mold. Some have fallen hook, line, and sinker for that UofM snake oil before that "relationship building" between them and our staff could mature. You guys know how a good car salesman refuses to let you go. These kids are 17 years old - they'll fall for that type of selling more times than not. I have to think there is some type of hybrid recruiting model to work here - long sell the types of kids that fit that profile and hard/quick sell the others. Certainly there are psychologist types that could profile these kids to really understand how best to sell them on the program. Maybe I'm just bitter that UofM got another couple four stars this weekend.

    Tony Clifton

  • Getting excited over the verbal commitment of guys who are coming off their Jr. season of High School Football is a practice in futility. I wouldn't get too high or low in either "winning" or "losing" a verbal recruit. I've been consistent in this opinion. These won't come official for another 7 months. 7 months of mental and physical changes to a 17-18 year old is an eternity.

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • The main thing I like about MD's recruiting methods is that he always tells the kids to not commit until they are absolutely certain MSU is where they want to be at. In my opinion, the current difference between MSU commits and Michigan commits is that MSU recruits are currently committing to a school, a coaching staff, and 84 other players. Whereas at Michigan, players are committing to the automatic playing time, the chance to showcase their individual skills, and the potential of playing in the NFL, as well as the chance to be apart of a 'rise to power' of program.

    Obviously players that are committing to MSU (and all across the nation) dream of playing in the NFL someday too, but it seems that players committing to MSU are doing so for reasons other than their own individual dreams. However, at Michigan it seems a prime selling point is being put on the individual rather than the program.

    What I think this creates is Michigan garnering a better, more talented classes overall (which shouldn't come as a surprise), and MSU will bring in classes that are a more cohesive unit.

    bmrabbitt

  • You are just bitter that UofM got another pair of 4 star commits this weekend.

    Pretending to know Hokes recruiting methods (high pressure) vs. Dantonios (slow sell) is absurd, unless you are being recruited by them right now.

    Hoke is selling a great product - the chance to play for Michigan, a name brand program at a great school with a great football history and phenomenal football facilities. Add to the mix early playing time, return to glory, and Baltimore Ravens DC (who was called the best recruiter in college fball by Urban Meyer)you've got a pretty good sales pitch.

    Dantonio has got a great product too, especially coming off of a B10 championship...but losing your DC and a few important assistants hurts. Additionally, I think there's a perception that thr RR era at michigan was an aberration and that MSU kind of backed into a championship by virtue of an easier than usual schedule and a down b10.

    MSU will never out recruit Michigan on a consistent basis, especially when things are running on all cylinders. That's a fact.

    MSU can be a system program however, much like wisconsin and iow...two programs that are really, really good. They should build their program on a foundation of player development and consistency.

    As an M fan, I've never been scared of msu becoming another osu or psu....but I do fear them becoming another iowa, or even worse, wisconsin. Even b4 the rr era, both games were tough on our schedule.

    So yes, you are just bitter.

    Ashlyn Brooke


  • Pretending to know Hokes recruiting methods (high pressure) vs. Dantonios (slow sell) is absurd, unless you are being recruited by them right now.

    It's well known. Armani Reeves (I think) even cut UM for consideration because Hoke pressured him.

    Macks ●

  • Macks said...

    It's well known. Armani Reeves (I think) even cut UM for consideration because Hoke pressured him.

    Where did you hear this? Provide documentation bc I would love to eat my words.

    Like I said, pretending to know recruiting strategies of Hoke is absurd. Maybe because Ms class is filling up and they are in on so many highly rated prospects kids are feeling the pressure to commit, but that's a whole diff story. I'm sure good ole Coach D would love to be in this spot and the whole rcmb would be pounding their chests just like mgoblog.

    This whole thread smells like sour grapes to me.

    Ashlyn Brooke

  • Also with UM recruiting tactics of "commit this week or forever lose your spot," the kids are not getting a change to see other schools or get better offers. Most of these kids are gonna sit and wait around over 8 months and take no other official visits except to AA. Verbals dont mean much until they sign. Could see this happen, UM goes 3-9 or 4-8, and the SEC boys (FL, Bama, LSU, etc) start knockin at these players doors saying we know you verballed but just come down and visit us its free.

    Their way could lead to some attrition late in the process because of the quick commits and lack of relationship

    Cincy Bowtie

  • Ashlyn Brooke said...

    Where did you hear this? Provide documentation bc I would love to eat my words.

    "West Roxbury (Mass.) Catholic Memorial cornerback Armani Reeves isn't quite ready to make his college decision.

    Now, Michigan is out of the race because of it.

    "I decided to move on, they wanted me to commit when I wasn't ready to," he said. "I decided not to put myself in that situation. They wanted two corners and I just decided to move on and that's just that. We've pretty much gone our separate ways and I'm looking at other schools now."

    One in, one out, one leader

    West Roxbury (Mass.) Catholic Memorial cornerback Armani Reeves isnt quite ready to make his college decision, but some changes have come in his recruitment.

    pennstate.247sports.com

    bmrabbitt

  • Ashlyn Brooke said...

    Where did you hear this? Provide documentation bc I would love to eat my words.

    Like I said, pretending to know recruiting strategies of Hoke is absurd. Maybe because Ms class is filling up and they are in on so many highly rated prospects kids are feeling the pressure to commit, but that's a whole diff story. I'm sure good ole Coach D would love to be in this spot and the whole rcmb would be pounding their chests just like mgoblog.

    This whole thread smells like sour grapes to me.

    I agree. This thread is dumb and pointless, but your previous post just reeks of arrogance. Saying MSU will NEVER out recruit UofM? Please. Maybe not in the next year, but never. Get over yourself.

    Also, here is the quote regarding Reeves. It was from the latest Red Cedar Rumblings.

    **We told you in last week’s RCR about how Michigan is handing out ultimatums to recruits: Commit now or we move on. It appeared to work with James Ross and Terry Richardson. Armani Reeves? Not so much.
    The cornerback from West Roxbury (Mass.) Catholic Memorial wasn’t quite ready to make his college decision. Now, Michigan is out of the race because of it.
    "I decided to move on, they wanted me to commit when I wasn't ready to," Reeves told Lions247, our Penn State affiliate. "I decided not to put myself in that situation. They wanted two corners and I just decided to move on and that's just that. We've pretty much gone our separate ways and I'm looking at other schools now."

    (Mods, feel free to delete if you think this is too much paywall circumvention)

    This post was edited by Sigmakan on 6/13/2011 at 2:52 PM

    Sigmakan

  • Ashlyn Brooke said...

    You are just bitter that UofM got another pair of 4 star commits this weekend.

    Pretending to know Hokes recruiting methods (high pressure) vs. Dantonios (slow sell) is absurd, unless you are being recruited by them right now.

    Hoke is selling a great product - the chance to play for Michigan, a name brand program at a great school with a great football history and phenomenal football facilities. Add to the mix early playing time, return to glory, and Baltimore Ravens DC (who was called the best recruiter in college fball by Urban Meyer)you've got a pretty good sales pitch.

    Dantonio has got a great product too, especially coming off of a B10 championship...but losing your DC and a few important assistants hurts. Additionally, I think there's a perception that thr RR era at michigan was an aberration and that MSU kind of backed into a championship by virtue of an easier than usual schedule and a down b10.

    MSU will never out recruit Michigan on a consistent basis, especially when things are running on all cylinders. That's a fact.

    MSU can be a system program however, much like wisconsin and iow...two programs that are really, really good. They should build their program on a foundation of player development and consistency.

    As an M fan, I've never been scared of msu becoming another osu or psu....but I do fear them becoming another iowa, or even worse, wisconsin. Even b4 the rr era, both games were tough on our schedule.

    So yes, you are just bitter.

    1. It is very well known that Hoke is selling early playing time. That's the PRIMARY selling point for his "great product." This current recruiting class was THREE when Michigan won its half of the NC. What happens if these kids don't get it? They could either start somewhere else or sit around and say "oh hey, at least i warm the bench at MICHIGAN! YEA! Hoke is setting himself up for a lot of defection unless he makes 10-2 the standard immediately

    2. Return to glory?!?! That's the ND fan's weapon of choice. Working out great for them, huh?

    3. MSU "backed into a championship" by manhandling Wisconsin and kicking the shit out of you in your house. If you recall, we also challenged for the title in 2008.

    Wisconsin and Iowa are not "system programs." EVERY program needs to build their program on player development and consistency. What is Michigan's strategy? Get a bunch of 4 and 5 star recruits and the rest will take care of itself? Hell no - that's what Rodriguez thought. Lloyd Carr made his name on developing his players and consistently challenging the top of the Big Ten. MSU is turning into a good program, hands down - not a system program, not an occasionally successful team.

    If you just want to believe "oh, we're Michigan so we'll be on a different level than MSU, regardless of who wins the games" then go ahead. We'll take the W and keep going.

    Royal

  • bmrabbitt said...

    "West Roxbury (Mass.) Catholic Memorial cornerback Armani Reeves isn't quite ready to make his college decision.

    Now, Michigan is out of the race because of it.

    "I decided to move on, they wanted me to commit when I wasn't ready to," he said. "I decided not to put myself in that situation. They wanted two corners and I just decided to move on and that's just that. We've pretty much gone our separate ways and I'm looking at other schools now."

    Nice. I eat my words on Armani Reeves.

    Net effect is Michigan has commits from several equal or better prospects, while rival message boards are flooded with threads about how awesome it is to have a coach that slow sells, whcih probably results in getting lesser rated players but they are more cohesive.

    Never knew Polly Anna the spin doctor was a spartan.

    Ashlyn Brooke

  • Ashlyn Brooke said...

    Nice. I eat my words on Armani Reeves.

    Net effect is Michigan has commits from several equal or better prospects, while rival message boards are flooded with threads about how awesome it is to have a coach that slow sells, whcih probably results in getting lesser rated players but they are more cohesive.

    Never knew Polly Anna the spin doctor was a spartan.

    This slow-sell discussion has been a topic of discussion for a few years now. Not just this year. Get over yourself.

    Sigmakan

  • Sigmakan said...

    This slow-sell discussion has been a topic of discussion for a few years now. Not just this year. Get over yourself.

    Exactly. It's like some Michigan fans woke up and started following college football again.

    Michigan has 16 signees? No on else in the Big 10 has more than 10 I believe, and MSU under Dantonio rarely signs more than 5-6 before the summer camps. Yet, some Michigan fans think something new and wonderful is going on...

    I don't get some Michigan fans...

    signature image

    RPMadMSU

  • Ashlyn Brooke said...

    Nice. I eat my words on Armani Reeves.

    Net effect is Michigan has commits from several equal or better prospects, while rival message boards are flooded with threads about how awesome it is to have a coach that slow sells, whcih probably results in getting lesser rated players but they are more cohesive.

    Never knew Polly Anna the spin doctor was a spartan.

    The end result sure is cohesive.

    attachment

    bmrabbitt

  • Ashlyn Brooke said...

    Nice. I eat my words on Armani Reeves.

    Net effect is Michigan has commits from several equal or better prospects, while rival message boards are flooded with threads about how awesome it is to have a coach that slow sells, whcih probably results in getting lesser rated players but they are more cohesive.

    Never knew Polly Anna the spin doctor was a spartan.

    Too bad you can't get all those 4 star recruits into uniforms this Fall. Because, the bottomline is we'll see you in EL, where you are in line to take one of the biggest beatdowns from the Spartans in the history of this series of games.

    This post was edited by spartanjt77 on 6/13/2011 at 3:09 PM

    spartanjt77

  • bmrabbitt said...

    "West Roxbury (Mass.) Catholic Memorial cornerback Armani Reeves isn't quite ready to make his college decision.

    Now, Michigan is out of the race because of it.

    "I decided to move on, they wanted me to commit when I wasn't ready to," he said. "I decided not to put myself in that situation. They wanted two corners and I just decided to move on and that's just that. We've pretty much gone our separate ways and I'm looking at other schools now."

    BOOM! blackeye

    xGASMANx

  • Ashlyn Brooke said...

    Where did you hear this? Provide documentation bc I would love to eat my words.

    Like I said, pretending to know recruiting strategies of Hoke is absurd. Maybe because Ms class is filling up and they are in on so many highly rated prospects kids are feeling the pressure to commit, but that's a whole diff story. I'm sure good ole Coach D would love to be in this spot and the whole rcmb would be pounding their chests just like mgoblog.

    This whole thread smells like sour grapes to me.

    "Not so fast young man" you are sounding just a little too arrogant to be appreciated here. To claim that MSU would never out recruit scUM or be a better program is just more boastful BS.

    signature image signature image

    My seats at SS. My driveway in winter.

    MSU Mathguy

  • Dantonio knows what he is doing. Why people continue to question things like this is beyond me.

    This post was edited by OTPT on 6/13/2011 at 3:13 PM

    attachment

    OTPT

  • I shouldn't be surprised that one of my favorite porn stars is one of my least favorite posters on a sports message board

    signature image signature image signature image

    University of Michigan: Keeping ugly girls out of East Lansing since 1837!

    AverageWhiteGuy

  • MSU Mathguy said...

    "Not so fast young man" you are sounding just a little too arrogant to be appreciated here. To claim that MSU would never out recruit scUM or be a better program is just more boastful BS.

    sometimes i think to myself that UM fans have been through so much over the last three years that they must have learned a little humility by now and they've had enough pain. Hearing the arrogance back in full force proves to me they haven't had nearly enough pain yet. This is the most delusional fanbase I've ever seen.lol

    xGASMANx

  • Ashlyn Brooke said...

    Nice. I eat my words on Armani Reeves.

    Net effect is Michigan has commits from several equal or better prospects, while rival message boards are flooded with threads about how awesome it is to have a coach that slow sells, whcih probably results in getting lesser rated players but they are more cohesive.

    Never knew Polly Anna the spin doctor was a spartan.

    well armani reeves should eat his words because he never had an offer. we wanted him to camp for an offer because we were already high on other recruits.

    wallscr

  • spartanjt77 said...

    Too bad you can't get all those 4 star recruits into uniforms this Fall. Because, the bottomline is we'll see you in EL, where you are in line to take one of the biggest beatdowns from the Spartans in the history of this series of games.

    maybe some of those early commits might change their mind after that game

    SpartyStash

  • wallscr said...

    well armani reeves should eat his words because he never had an offer. we wanted him to camp for an offer because we were already high on other recruits.

    Scout and Rivals both show Michigan offers.

    Edit - As does 247.

    This post was edited by Macks on 6/13/2011 at 3:21 PM

    Macks ●

  • wallscr said...

    well armani reeves should eat his words because he never had an offer. we wanted him to camp for an offer because we were already high on other recruits.

    lolbs_sign

    bmrabbitt

  • Royal said...

    1. It is very well known that Hoke is selling early playing time. That's the PRIMARY selling point for his "great product." This current recruiting class was THREE when Michigan won its half of the NC. What happens if these kids don't get it? They could either start somewhere else or sit around and say "oh hey, at least i warm the bench at MICHIGAN! YEA! Hoke is setting himself up for a lot of defection unless he makes 10-2 the standard immediately

    2. Return to glory?!?! That's the ND fan's weapon of choice. Working out great for them, huh?

    3. MSU "backed into a championship" by manhandling Wisconsin and kicking the shit out of you in your house. If you recall, we also challenged for the title in 2008.

    Wisconsin and Iowa are not "system programs." EVERY program needs to build their program on player development and consistency. What is Michigan's strategy? Get a bunch of 4 and 5 star recruits and the rest will take care of itself? Hell no - that's what Rodriguez thought. Lloyd Carr made his name on developing his players and consistently challenging the top of the Big Ten. MSU is turning into a good program, hands down - not a system program, not an occasionally successful team.

    If you just want to believe "oh, we're Michigan so we'll be on a different level than MSU, regardless of who wins the games" then go ahead. We'll take the W and keep going.

    A little Sensitive??

    1. The train of thought that early playing time is Hoke's main selling point is absurd. While it's definitely a selling point, and probably more so than other programs right now, there are A LOT of selling points that Hoke has. Remember that Michigan's team is still young - and they added a good number of defensive players last year.

    2. Returning a Historically strong program back to elite status is without question a great selling point for recruits - why wouldn't it be.

    3. Perception. Perception - Please understand this word. I do not think that MSU "backed into a B10 Championship." A championship is a championship. And yes, you DID manhandle us at our house.

    Having said that, the perception nationally is that the Big Ten is down (see, a STRONG MICHIGAN is GOOD for the Big Ten.) Additionally, MSU did not play what was perceived to be the best team in the Big Ten (O$U) and beat Wisconsin at home....it is perceived that they had an easy schedule.

    Winning the BigTen in a three way tie (I know, I think you guys got boned w/ the OSU stuff and everything) and then getting manhandled (emphasis on manhandled) in the Capital One Bowl is not a great way to endear yourself to recruits as the next elite in the Big Ten. Just saying.

    Perception, Perception, Perception...

    4. Don't take the Wisconsin and Iowa thing as an insult. I, personally, would take it as a compliment. If MSU can find the continuity that Wisconsin and Iowa have had over the years, you'll be in GREAT shape.

    I'm just saying that you don't see them winning a whole lot of recruiting battles with the Big Dogs, yet they still win.

    "We'll take the W and keep going." - Yes, Yes, Yes...I get the whole DickRod, 3-9, Little Sister thing. You guys beat us three years in a row.

    But I think it's a little too early to claim a copyright on Winning....College Football didn't start in 2008.

    Ashlyn Brooke

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